<font color='black' size='2' face='arial'><br> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3px"><PRE><TT>My membership DOES NOT come into play in this discussion - SO - just drop it. FYI, I was a member until I could not afford the dues and the overall subject matter did not include much about the antique player systems. PLUS, as in what a lot of other persons are saying, who gives a rats arse about the home office - to us (non-members included), it's all about the tech list (functionality, ease of use, syncing with other devices, etc) Duaine</PRE></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></div> <div>First, regarding membership. Although the PTG does not concentrate on antique player systems, there are discussions about them once in a while, just as you only occasionally tune, and there are discussions about that, too. Dues are what they are. Perhaps if you took full advantage of what the dues will get you, membership might actually be worth it. The best example of this was the recent convention. There were no classes specifically on player systems, but there were many classes related to upright and grand repairs and regulations. After all, what good does it to repair the player system if the piano itself doesn't work. And of course, there were lots of classes on tuning, including using your favorite ETD. I even invited you to one of my tutoring sessions, at no cost, but didn't take advantage.  </div> <div> </div> <div>As far as the home office is concerned, you had better care, because without them, we wouldn't be here. Well, we might be here, but can you imagine having one of us run this organization out of our office, instead of having dedicated professionals to it for us. Which, I learned in a class on the history of PTG at the convention, it used be. Members processing paperwork, editing Journals, and basically keeping the organization running. <br> <br> The fact that you are even able to participate in this list, Duaine, is entirely due to volunteers in the PTG, who pay dues, and Home Office Staff, dedicating their time to keep this list, and the others, available for piano tuners like your self. We appreciate and welcome your technical discussions, but please keep your misguided personal opinions about the lists, and the PTG, to yourself. </div> <div> </div> <div>Wim</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Duaine Hechler <dahechler@att.net><br> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org><br> Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 6:02 am<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Horse and buggy users.<br> <br> <div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12px" id=AOLMsgPart_0_b0479b4f-db8d-4853-a7f3-ea3bb02e796f><PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>Again, William, My membership DOES NOT come into play in this discussion - SO - just drop it. FYI, I was a member until I could not afford the dues and the overall subject matter did not include much about the antique player systems. PLUS, as in what a lot of other persons are saying, who gives a rats arse about the home office - to us (non-members included), it's all about the tech list (functionality, ease of use, syncing with other devices, etc) Duaine On 07/20/2011 10:45 AM, William Monroe wrote: > Again, Duaine, > > It goes beyond the list serv and it's function. It encompasses all of the PTG organizational functions as well. > > As a non-member I can see how that is meaningless to you, but to some of us it does matter. > > William R. Monroe > > > > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Duaine Hechler <<A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</A> <<A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net?">mailto:dahechler@att.net</A>>> wrote: > > Here we go again ......... > > I thought this subject was supposed to be banned - I know I got my last email "slapped" for bringing this up again. > > So now that it is here again, I'll chime in again. > > Comparison of the new list, is like the Edsel. > > It was ahead of it's time ..... not well accepted ..... and became a rare antique very quickly. > > I see the new list going in the same direction. > > As you can see, this was submitted under the old list - only. > > Regards, Duaine > > P.S. What happened to the old adage - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ?!?!?!?!? > > On 07/20/2011 09:11 AM, William Monroe wrote: > > Will, > > I can't say that I condone Israel's approach to "encouraging" everyone to use the new system. I can say, > however, that your suggestion, you quoted, > > "If a thing can be done adequately by means of one, it is superfluous to do it by means of several; for we > observe that nature does not employ two instruments [if] one suffice”. That’s a pretty good measure for any > software interface design. By that measure, to claim that the new HL forum software represents a paradigm > shift is laughable." > > It is essential that everyone who reads this forum (and who will eventually be using the new system) > understands that the paradigm shift (it really is) reaches far beyond email lists. The new software works > wonderfully for so much of what the home office needs it to do to track and maintain membership, > communications, and the integrating so many needs for the organization - of which the email list is only one. > > Please understand, I value the list as much as anyone, and I don't mean to imply that the new system is as > simple as the old. Neither do I intend to denigrate any of it's users. However, there are other > considerations for PTG besides the list. The new software does a remarkable job filling the needs of the PTG > and incorporating the lists as well. I'll say it again because it is extremely important that we on the list > fully understand: the needs of PTG are much more than just the list. > > To be sure, the list is important and it was considered. And, it does continue to function on the new > software. It is absolutely different. It is in some ways more troublesome. It is in some ways better. List > folks (and I include myself in that number) need to move past the initial frustrations, log on, take the time > to get set up as your needs see fit, and learn to use it. If we simply refuse to use it, it will never work > for us. I'm discovering that as I use it more, it becomes vastly simpler. > > Again, the new software is a big step forward for the PTG on the organizational level. It may complicate the > list function for a bit until we all take the time to learn to use it effectively, but it will happen. > > William R. Monroe > > > > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Encore Pianos <<A href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net">encorepianos@metrocast.net</A> <<A href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net?">mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net</A>> > <<A href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net?">mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net</A> <<A href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net?">mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net</A>>>> wrote: > > Dear Isreal: > > Hmmmm…. “:fellow luddites”, “horse and buggy drivers complaining how difficult it is to start a car”, > “horseshit”, “can the attitude”, “small but loud group who refuse to develop basic web skills” “files YOU > PEOPLE > were shoving onto my computer (caps added by me, wow, a conspiracy, what fun!) “massaging each other’s egos” > > And now for the real kicker, “the relatively minor glitches that any paradigm shift entails”. PARADIGM > SHIFT?????!!!!!!!!, Isn’t that a bit like a 2 ½ foot tall guy dunking the ball into a basket 2 feet off the > ground and claiming “player of the year?” > > Jon Page doesn’t need me to defend him and I won’t speak for him. I will say that I have met Jon and spent a > little time with him, and have followed his posts on the forum over the past years. Somehow, luddite never > enters my mind when I think of Jon. And please note that the group of people you describe as luddites and > horse > and buggy drivers includes the following people, if we are including those who have expressed their lack of > enthusiasm for the new forum: Del Fandrich, Ron Nossaman, Dale Erwin, David Andersen, and David Love; > amongst > many ohers. > > I admire both Del and Ron for their approach to problem solving and design, because they so well apply these > variations on “Occam’s Razor”, “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication” and “Entities must not be > multiplied > beyond necessity”. It is always a sign of an elegant and penetrating mind to seek the simplest and most > direct > solution.that fulfills all necessary criteria. > > I think this saying from Saint Thomas Aquinas is most topical when thinking of software, particularly the HL > PIanotech web software: "If a thing can be done adequately by means of one, it is superfluous to do it by > means of > several; for we observe that nature does not employ two instruments [if] one suffice”. That’s a pretty good > measure for any software interface design. By that measure, to claim that the new HL forum software > represents a > paradigm shift is laughable. > > Will Truitt > > > > -- > Duaine Hechler > Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ > Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding > Reed Organ Society Member > Florissant, MO 63034 > (314) 838-5587 <tel:%28314%29%20838-5587> > <A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</A> <<A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net?">mailto:dahechler@att.net</A>> > <A href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com/" target=_blank>www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</A> <<A href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com/" target=_blank>http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</A>> > -- > Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years > > > -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 <A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</A> <A href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com/" target=_blank>www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</A> -- Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years </TT></PRE></div> </div> </font>