<HTML style="FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif; FONT-SIZE: x-small" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19088"> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType> <STYLE> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <STYLE>  </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US link=blue bgColor=#ffffff vLink=blue> <DIV> <DIV>William,</DIV> <DIV>Precisely what I was talking about. It is the little things that make up the "whole" of a piano "sound", IMO. Cumulatively, it can be good or bad or...??? Some good examples of  little things changing the tone: 1. Take well rgulated/tuned/voiced N.Y. Steinway and take the hammer off of A 49, (that has a round hammer shank), and replace the Shank/Flangewith a Hamburg/Renner and glue the hammer onto that assembly. Allow the glue, (Hide Glue, of course),  to set up properly. Re-regulate and play it. The tone on that note is completely different!! Or...2 Try installing a brass rod where there is a steel rod in an olde European upright, at the Nut. The tone Changes Markedly, even tho all other things are the same. Why? because we are using a different material. Same situation only change the termination to wood! Whoa! Major tonal difference! The little things, as a group make up what IS the piano. Just my thoughts on the matter. Glad you have had similar experiences.<G></DIV> <DIV>Joe</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=pianoboutique@comcast.net href="mailto:pianoboutique@comcast.net">Piano Boutique</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=joegarrett@earthlink.net href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</A>;<A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 7/26/2011 6:53:36 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Joe,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I think that sound travels threw plastic, differently than it does threw wood.   I also think that the feel of playing aluminum is different than wood.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Have you ever heard a definite thunk when playing a Yamaha grand.   there is a metal support under the key bed that produces the sound.   I don't like it and in fact, I like the absents of sound when playing a Steinway with a wood plank.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>As you would say:  thank you very much.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Willy</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=ltr> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=joegarrett@earthlink.net href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">Joseph Garrett</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=markb@pianodisc.com href="mailto:markb@pianodisc.com">Mark S Burgett</A> ; <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 26, 2011 8:41 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Mark,</DIV> <DIV>Yes, I have played two  M& Hs, in a side by side test, at Classic Piano, in Portland. I definately did not like the feel of the Plastic. Also, I did not like the tone produced. It must just be me.<G>  (Or...it could just have been those two pianos) </DIV> <DIV>I'm a wood worker. It's what I do. Plastic parts, no matter how well crafted, do not appeal to me. I happen to like the sound of pianos with wood parts. I do not like pianos with aluminum rails and/or plastic parts. That includes the difference between the new Kawaii s and the old ones. Two different entities! Truly not intended to be insulting or anything. I applaud the effort you have made in this regard. It is needed, I suppose, for those that like to change the basic character of the instruments they work onyour stuff is just the ticket. It's not to say that that's a bad thing, it's just not my thing. I try to bring out the intention of the designer of the piano, in my rebuilds. Your parts do not do that, IMO.<G></DIV> <DIV> I perceive that over the past 40 years, pianos have transitioned into a harsh unmusical entity. I believe it is an evolutionary process that is prompted from modern ears becoming deaf at  earlier years. Also, it is a never ending process to try and get more out of a given piano. Some of the Tonal Perception is due to the poor EQing of modern recordings of pianos. The fact is that pianos will only produce so much of a decible level and that it has reached that! Any further attempt is simply producing more "noise" IMO. Granted, wooden action problems have their problems. I know how to work with them. Plastic is not a repairable product. It is a "replaceable' product. All goes along with our "throw away/disposable" societal mindset.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards, </DIV> <DIV>Joe</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=markb@pianodisc.com href="mailto:markb@pianodisc.com">Mark S Burgett</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=joegarrett@earthlink.net href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</A>;<A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 7/26/2011 3:23:34 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi Joe,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I guess you haven’t played a piano with the WNG action parts.  They actually sound, play better and the pianist has more control that the wooden action parts.  Anyway, I wanted to share some pictures from Randy Mangus that rebuilt a Chickering with our parts with some creativity.  We didn’t have the correct Rep. flange then but will soon in our stock.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mark<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center SIZE=2 width="100%"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Joseph Garrett<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:21 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> J Patrick Draine; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">pianotech@ptg.org</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'MS Sans Serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Patrick,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'MS Sans Serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Not no, H%$# NO!<G> First of all, I've redesigned many actions for Chickerings Using Pratt Read and Renner parts. There are ways of putting a new action in a piano. Plastic, IMSO, is not it. It's too stiff and clunky for my likes. But, thanks for the suggestion.<G> I have all of the W.N.& G. action parts kit. I've done the numbers, etc.Just didn't add up for this olde duffer.<G> My point to this exercise is to see if I can save the customer some big bucks and have the piano play as it was originally designed. (which I consider to be correct for the instrument, as this is a pre-Aeolian thang.<G>)</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'MS Sans Serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'MS Sans Serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Joe</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV style="font-color: black"> <P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=jpdraine@gmail.com href="mailto:jpdraine@gmail.com">J Patrick Draine</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: </SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A title=joegarrett@earthlink.net href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</A>;<A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> 7/26/2011 8:44:30 AM <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [pianotech] Chickering Grand Hammer Flanges?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Joe, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I don't have answers to your annealing question but you might consider calling Jude Reveley for information on how he redesigned  a couple Chickering actions: WN&G action rail, WN&G action parts, back action, and a new and redesigned keyboard. Probably more than you were planning on, but perhaps worth considering. If it's the same model Jude has done all the design work on maybe you could work out a deal . . .<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Patrick Draine<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Jude's neighbor, here in cool <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Billerica</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Joseph Garrett <<A href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Anyone have an idea the difference of expansion rates of Steel and Brass.<BR>I'm into a Chickering Grand and am planning on trying to anneal them<BR>puppies. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>