Hi Joe, <div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message----- From: Joseph Garrett <joegarrett@earthlink.net> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2011 10:30 am Subject: [pianotech] re balance rail break-loose noise <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_980ef196-7010-469a-83d6-7da7a0a04b09" style="margin: 0px;font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;font-size: 12px;color: #000;background-color: #fff;"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Laura said: "Subject: Re: [pianotech] balance hole break-loose noise Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7668E7FB-CEDA-4046-8685-8BB9A85B6749@att.net">7668E7FB-CEDA-4046-8685-8BB9A85B6749@att.net</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alan, I've never used white glue and water. I usually use diluted hide glue ('cause I apply it while I'm rebushing keys) or titebond (yellow glue) and water. Can anyone speak to the effects of these different glues on the wood? It seems you feel reasonably sure that the sound is coming from the pin and wood of the balance rail hole. I've never heard that. I have heard a "scrunchie" sound of the balance rail felt scratching against the balance rail pin. I assumed that was from over processed felt and a touch of lanolin or a puff of powdered teflon has done the trick. I'll be interested in seeing what works for you." Laura, I've always used 50%-50% Cold Hide Glue & Distilled Water for that. I've never had an issue from it. I do it in the key bushing just as you do. (well maybe<G> I do it after I've removed/steamed the balance rail bushings. That way, if the hole tests out o.k. with a balance pin, then no sizing is used. </tt></pre><pre>Thanks for sharing your process.</pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;">I have a whole set of balance rail pins dedicated to this process. I insert a pin in each hole and let set overnight to get a bettersizing. Started doing it that way a few years ago and find that it is moreconsistant.)</pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;">So it's true, then: Great minds DO think alike ;-).</pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>I would never use White Glue for that! (PVC-A or E) It has a nasty characteristic of never getting hard! Same applies to the various TiteBonds (original, II & III and Moulding). </tt></pre><pre>I have used Titebond and water for years without ever having this particular problem</pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Yes, I do use those others for various applications. They're part of my arsenal of Glues, Epoxies, etc. that are necessary to make repairs. I give a Class on that very subject. <G> As for key noises, I'm with you: a little puff of teflon does the trick. Or, if all the keys are off the rail, I use Elmer's Slide All after cleaning the pins with my super speedy key pin cleaner.<G> GAAA (a new thangee). </tt></pre><pre><tt>Do tell. This is a tool that I am interested in.</tt></pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>All of that is another Class called: If the Keys aren't right, Nothing else can be.<G> </tt></pre><pre><tt>Amen to that. The keys are the interface between the players' fingers and everything else. Muy importante!</tt></pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Don't think I'd use Lanolin or VJ Lube in that application. Animal Fats seem to do strange things, just when you don't want them to. Case in Point: Steinway Vertigris. Best Regards, Joe Joe Garrett, R.P.T. Captain of the Tool Police Squares R I</tt></pre><pre>Alan</pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt> </tt></pre> </div>  </div>