<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><base href="x-msg://68/"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hey, who you calling an old geezer?  I worked hard for every one of these lines.  <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Seriously, Joe’s point is a good one (even if not expressed in the most gentile way) asking for the string gauges can be dangerous.  The data I posted was with the speaking lengths and if you measure some other pianos of the same model and vintage you may well get something quite different.  A good look at the scale of any piano you are rebuilding is always worthwhile and falls under that heading of “considerations” along with soundboard condition and design, duplex scales, hammer selection, action ratio, and a host of other things.   You might well decide to stay with the original (as long as you’re sure what that is), but knowing your options at least gives you the opportunity to make a choice and do some tweaking should you determine it’s necessary or beneficial.  It’s not in everyone’s comfort zone to do that or to design a spreadsheet or even interpret data provided by a preexisting one and make changes.  But if you’re going to be in the business of rebuilding/restringing pianos, it’s a good idea to get comfortable with it even if you are having someone else do the analysis initially.  <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David Love<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.davidlovepianos.com<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Andersen<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 26, 2011 3:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> joegarrett@earthlink.net; pianotech@ptg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] FW: RE: Piano Scales<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>That wasn't D. Love...that was ME...ya olde geezer....<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>David Andersen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sep 26, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>I'm forwarding this, because this is what you get when you take a postitive attitude re. my neverending rants.<G><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>I realize I have offended a couple of people. To that I apologize. (Leave it to David Love to bring me up short and put me back in the real world. Thanks David.<G>) Please feel free to comment on any and all of this, if ya'll wish to. My hide is pretty thick, as most know...so....have at it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>Joe<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>Joe Garrett, R.P.T.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>Captain of the Tool Police<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>Squares R I<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net" title="joegarrett@earthlink.net">Joseph Garrett</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:rosemanpiano@gmail.com" title="rosemanpiano@gmail.com">Rex Roseman</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>9/26/2011 8:05:46 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>RE: Piano Scales<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>Rex,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'>It really wasn't a "challenge", but a rant.<G> I applaud you willingness to delve into this important aspect of rebuilding! I will answer your questions below:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:rosemanpiano@gmail.com" title="rosemanpiano@gmail.com">Rex Roseman</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net" title="joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>9/26/2011 6:50:27 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Piano Scales<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Sans Serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Joe</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I would like to take you up on your challenge to learn about rescaling pianos during rebuild (see the below clip from one of your last posts). In the past, I have always duplicated what was on the piano originally but I have a project piano that I am working on at this moment that I can take extra time and experiment on.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>There are a couple questions that I would like to ask.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What is the best scale program to work with in your opinion? I have a copy of Scale Ripper. Is this all that I need?</span><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><strong>I have not heard of this program, but suspect it's like a lot of others that promise stressfree/unschooled/perfect scales every time. Would not use it for anything, unless there is a real person behind it that will give you counciling in it's makeup and use. (not to mention perameters to strive for. The program I use is Scalemaster, developed by Mark Gallant, Assoc., Portland Chapter. I am the Beta User/abuser of this program.<G> It has it's foibles, but can do the job with some time spent with it. Mark and I are readily available for help.</strong><o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Do the bass strings need to have special scaling to deal with the core/wrap configuration or can I just use a program such as Scale Ripper?</span><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><strong>Again, NO on the "Scale Ripper" thang. For the first part, ...That is the most important part of piano scaling, (the bass). It lays the foundation for everything else. Most techs think the plain wire is the most important, but I've found that it is almost inconsequential. I've change wire sizes, up to 3 sizes one way or the other and there was little or no change in tonal quality. There was a bit of volume lost/gained, but that was difficult to percieve.</strong><o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Who can you recommend for bass strings that can help in both the scaling and the making of the strings.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I recommend: 1. J.D. Grandt, Piano Supplies/Strings, Canada, (address is in the ads in the back of the Journal). 2. James Arledge, in Nashville,Tennessee. (Check your Directory). There is a third string maker, I can recommend, who makes bass strings, but with a different type of copper. His strings tend to be a bit brighter: Ari Isaacs, Canada.</span></strong><o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Are there other questions that I should be asking as I get into this project? (Usually it is the questions that you don?t know to ask that come back to bite you.)</span><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><strong>The best thing I can recommend is to get a copy of "The Calculating Technician" from the Home Office. That is the foundation for all of this. However, keep an open mind in regards to Inharmonicity, Impedence (loudness) & Breaking Strengths. Every technician has his/her favorite "criteria". Personally, I tend to use the Imedence factor more than the Inharmonicity factor. As far as tensions go, try to maintain a balance and over-all total within the scheme of the piano. Every piano will have a "pattern" and you should look for it as being the Intent of the Designer. This I think is the most important factor. i.e. don't try to  make a Baldwin out of a Steinway or vice versa.<G></strong><o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><strong>I hope all this helps. Please feel free to contact me any time.</strong><o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><strong>Joe</strong><o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thank you for your time and consideration.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Rex Roseman</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>330-289-2948</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>We have the ability to SCALE Pianos for the greatest overall improvement of sound, on an individual basis! And yet, none >of you techno-geeks seem willing to put forth the EFFORT to learn how to do this!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>