<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hi Alan and Richard:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I’ve used my drill press to drill WNG perimeter bolt holes once in the past, and it was a pain in the ass to change the drill bits and position the press to line up to the holes. A drill guide such as I describe in my post below is just as accurate and dramatically faster, now that I have done it both ways. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I have drilled my deepest holes at 13/32” and have had no problems with the bolts turning when not asked to, and they have otherwise been satisfactorily snug. I think I would make several test drillings in some pinblock stock out of the piano before I went to the smaller size. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I used a couple of David Love’s suggestions to my greater satisfaction than my original plan. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I ended up drilling the 7/8” hole with a forstner bit to the depth of ¼”. The forstner bit left a centered dimple, which I used to center a 3/8” forstner bit. That I took down to another ¼” to serve as a centering guide for the 13/32” aircraft twist drill, which I took down to 4 1/8” (using a stop collar on the drill set at the right position). This was followed by a ½” aircraft twist drill to a depth of 1 ½”, also using a stop collar.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>David’s suggestion to drill the 13/32” deeper hole first, followed by the ½” hole was spot on in two ways. First, the difference in size between the ½” drill and the 13/32” is small enough that the smaller hole served as a very reliable pilot. Secondly, the ½” hole for the ½” shank at the top of the bolt serves to center the bolt very well. There just isn’t the room for it to wander much of anywhere. I was dubious until I tried it. I’ve done the order of drills both ways and David’s method is far and away superior to the other way. Don’t worry about that 1/2” hole being too small – it makes slop impossible. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I’ve always plugged the holes with dowels, as that is what was suggested in the installation instructions from WNG. Others have used epoxy and wood flour to satisfaction, but I have not tried that yet. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Good luck,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Will Truitt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan Eder<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 01, 2011 5:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> pianotech@ptg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [pianotech] Fwd: WNG plate bolt installation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>List, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I recently participated in an installation of the WNG bolts with Richard Davenport. Here is how he plans to do it on the next go-around.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan Eder<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div id="AOLMsgPart_1_cc7ace81-5eaf-4334-a171-e3fd8a6fcd8d"><div><div id="AOLMsgPart_2_d9cd9f40-1bf6-437e-81ec-7b87c23f13e2"><div><div><div id="AOLMsgPart_2_ea0b6cf9-b2f5-4d59-b18c-88d2c4284cca"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Richard Davenport <<a href="mailto:rdpt@aol.com">rdpt@aol.com</a>><br>To: reggaepass <<a href="mailto:reggaepass@aol.com">reggaepass@aol.com</a>><br>Sent: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 7:01 am<br>Subject: Re: [pianotech] WNG plate bolt installation<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_2_e3f302f0-0cbc-44ae-be54-de8e73a93b60"><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>I already know what I will do differently next time. It starts by drilling out the old lag bolt holes and plugging them with a 1" maple dowel. After gluing in the board, Ill put in the plate and mark the centers of all the rim bolt holes. Then I'll remove the plate and wheel my drill press over to the piano. I'll use a 7/8" Forstner for the first hole, followed by the 9/16" Forstner for the second hole and finally a smaller 25/64" long aircraft twist drill for the final hole that holds the lags. 13/32" is too large. Both Forstner bits will be used in an extension. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>This system corrects for two problems. The original Steinway lag holes are not at 90° in any direction. The result is a WNG bolt that touches only a small area of the plate boss. The smaller 25/64" aircraft drill will tighten up the lag bolts so they don't turn when you tighten the retaining bolts. This may not be a problem with newer rims. I had a heck of a time with the 1913 A I just strung. The old wood didn't hold the lag securely. I had to clamp the plate down on both sides of the WNG bolt to keep it from turning down when tightening the retaining bolts.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Incidentally, Bruce Clark at Mason & Hamlin dowels the old holes too. This is where I got the idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>RD<br><br></span><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div id="AOLMsgPart_2_cff91a90-ceb6-4a26-a0a0-80b4c0c26e77"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From: Encore Pianos <<a href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net">encorepianos@metrocast.net</a>><br>To: pianotech <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br>Sent: Fri, Oct 28, 2011 6:02 am<br>Subject: [pianotech] WNG plate bolt installation<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>This is addressed to those of you who have been using the Wessell, Nickel, & Gross Perimeter Bolts.  I am trying to refine my system for installing them, and I find the recommended WNG installation system leaves much to be desired  As you  know, we are required to drill 3 holes.  WNG recommends drilling the first hole with a 7/8’ spade bit to a depth of about ¼”, the second with a 9/16” spade bit to a depth of about 1 ½”, and the third with a 13/32” aircraft or electricians drill to a depth of about 4 1/8”.  <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I think the spade bit drills are terrible, they chew up the wood and don’t leave a clean hole, and they do not center very well on top of that.  Nor have I found that the electricians long drill centers well either.  Basically getting all three holes to center consistently is a crap shoot.  There has to be a better way.  <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Of course, the rim is in the way. That limits our options considerably as far as what other tools we might use.  The drill bits we use must either be long enough to have the drill work above the rim top, or we have drill extensions with the proper bits set in them that will allow the same. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Here is the plan of attack I am contemplating:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I made a drill guide out of a block of wood that is 3 ½” tall by 7” long x 1 ½” deep.  I drilled a 5/8” hole off centered, and same with a  13/32” hole .  The block is mounted on two 3” feet that raise the block and allow you to see the drill bits going into the holes, and leaves room for the movement of the bits.  <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The 5/8” hole serves as a guide for a 3/8” shank forstner bit extension that is 10” long x 5/8” in diameter, which I got from Woodcraft.com   Most Forstner bits have a 3/8” shank, and that size is hard to come by at a hardware store, not to mention that the Irwin drill extensions we commonly see are a WCPOS and not worth buying.  I paid $35.00 for my Wood River extension.  <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>What I want to do is use 3 Forstner bit sizes to drill my holes – 7/8” for #1 hole, 9/16” for #2, and 3/8” for the final hole.  I can mount all three in my Forstner extension, and use it in my guide to keep everything at 90 degrees.   The 3/8” forstner bit is too small for the threads of the WNG bolt, so I will chase that last hole with my 13/32” aircraft drill.  The .031 difference in size between the hole and the drill should be small enough to allow it to center well in the hole.  Indeed, the 3/8” hole does not need to go fully to the bottom, only deep enough to serve as a sufficient guide to the 13/32 hole that will then take it to full depth.  <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>That is how I believe I can get good and consistent results.  <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I would love to hear others input on this.  If you have a better way, I am all ears.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Will Truitt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>