<html><head><base href="x-msg://12/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I think someone already mentioned this but Del's answer again reminds me again about checking that the lyre is not pulling apart, usually near the pedal box.<div><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div> ---Tom Gorley<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 20px/normal 'Book Antiqua'; color: rgb(34, 58, 168); "><span style="font: normal normal normal 20px/normal 'Corsiva Hebrew'; "><b> </b></span><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; ">Tom Gorley</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Kokonor; "><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#910f08">Registered Piano Technician </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal 'Book Antiqua'; color: rgb(62, 0, 147); "><span><b> </b></span></div></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 14px/normal 'Book Antiqua'; color: rgb(62, 0, 147); "><span style="letter-spacing: 0px; "><br></span></div></span></div></div></div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On Nov 14, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Delwin D Fandrich wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">First I’d want to know why there is a ½” gap in there.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">With new leather pads of appropriate thickness on backs of the pedals and the end of the shift lever, new under-pedal felt, etc.—you did replace all that stuff, didn’t you?—if there is still that much of a gap I’d be looking for a reason. The typical shift lever has a ratio of approximately 4.5:1. That means if the action (keyframe) is shifted 0.1” or so to the right the end of the shift lever under the pedal rod will be off by 0.45”. Or, if the keyframe shift block (clutch?) is worn by that much the shift lever under the pedal rod will also be off by 0.45”.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">Before you simply start adding leather spacers to the long end of the shift lever you might want to be sure there is enough room between the top of the lever and the bottom of the keybed. I’ve come across more than a few pianos with shift levers knocking against the bottom of the keybed because some tooner just added spacers of some kind to the end of the shift lever when that wasn’t the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">ddf<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Delwin D Fandrich</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Piano Design & Fabrication</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">6939 Foothill Court SW,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Olympia, Washington 98512 USA<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Phone 360.515.0119 — Cell 360.388.6525</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><a href="mailto:del@fandrichpiano.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: blue; ">del@fandrichpiano.com<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">—<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><a href="mailto:ddfandrich@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: blue; ">ddfandrich@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:tnrwim@aol.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">tnrwim@aol.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, November 13, 2011 9:14 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">pianotech@ptg.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [pianotech] shift shim<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">I've rebuilt the piano, The old leather on the trap system has been removed and replaced with new leather. The cavity where the shift pedal activates the action is all there, and doesn't look worn out. The action shifts correctly. It's just that when you press the shift pedal, there is about 1/2" of lost motion. I can, and have, added another layer of leather, which reduced the gap, and the shift does move over a little sooner. (It stops at the action shift screw. <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">My question was if anyone has ever shimmed the action cavity to take care of the gap, or is adding leather the best solution?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Wim <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Ed Foote <<a href="mailto:a440a@aol.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">a440a@aol.com</a>><br>To: pianotech <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br>Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 3:09 pm<br>Subject: Re: [pianotech] shift shim<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_1_192884e5-ad70-421a-be9d-a5ab7aee19cc"><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: black; "> I think most shift, (assuming we are talking about the una corda), problems I have seen have been because there is a leather pad that is torn off the trapwork. There is supposed to be a leather pad glued to the screwed on wood inlay that is on the shift lever. Otherwise, there is something that is holding the action too far to the right, creating a large gap between the top of the shift lever and keyframe. <o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: black; "> And then there is the gap caused by the keyframe having been eroded and crushed where the shift lever contacts it. I have always inlaid a piece of end grain ebony when rebuilding a keyframe and it has this problem. <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Ed Foote RPT<br><a href="http://www.piano-tuners.org/edfoote/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.piano-tuners.org/edfoote/index.html</a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div id="AOLMsgPart_1_adf4e368-2b6f-4872-95dd-4f6e1aa86c8f"><blockquote style="border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: black; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding-top: 0cm; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">The shift on my S&S has about a 1/2" - 5/8" gap. Should I shim the action frame or add leather to the shift lever at the pedal rod?</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">WIm<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>