<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:rtc="http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:Repl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" xmlns:mt="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ppda="http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think you’re both missing the point of all this. This isn’t a comment on the lack of appreciation for old uprights. The issue being discussed relates to the debate of paying $50 or $150 or even $250 for this piano. The concern is in the wrong place. While you can certainly make a good piano out of an old upright (sometimes) that doesn’t mean that it makes sense economically or that a person debating between $50 or $150 is likely to be in the position to the do the work required even if it could be justified by the value—depending on their goals, of course. The tech’s obligation, in my view, is to be realistic about the potential of the piano and all the costs involved and then inform the customer of the reality of the situation and give them something to compare it to. Otherwise they may end up getting the piano for $50 but who cares if it has problems that trump the acquisition at any price. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As far as the economics of rebuilding old uprights, rarely does it make sense unless you’re a hobbyist working for fun or unless the customer has some sentimental attachment that extends beyond the cost/value relationship, which does happen and can be justified. The time involved and the cost of materials is not significantly different from what it takes to do a quality grand piano maybe with exception of the finish. The value when you’re done, however, is a fraction. Where do you want to spend your time? I know where I want to spend mine. While it may be sad to relegate many of these once interesting instruments to the scrap heap, the value that justifies the time and cost generally just isn’t there. As technicians we would be remiss in our responsibility to advise customers otherwise. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David Love<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.davidlovepianos.com<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen Grattan<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 29, 2011 11:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> pianotech@ptg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] Upright price<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Noah,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>As a rebuilder that rebuilds old uprights, grands and player pianos every day - I agree completely with Dean.  <br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>Steve Grattan</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>Lost Chord Clinic</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue'>888 742-6644</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Dean May <deanmay@pianorebuilders.com><br><b>To:</b> pianotech@ptg.org<br><b>Sent:</b> Tue, November 29, 2011 1:50:36 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] Upright price</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>One thing you must realize, Noah, is there is a quite a bias on this list against old uprights. Which is too bad, because even though there are zillions out there richly deserving of their scorn, there are still many that make very nice instruments and have beautiful cabinets. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Your job, as the buyer’s agent, is to discern what they are looking for and help them find it for the best price. Their decorating scheme may demand and pretty old upright. And if you can make a decent playing piano out of it for less than $500 and they love the cabinet, then they’ll have a decent piano that fits their needs for less than $1k. If it could be done for $10k and still fits their budget, I wouldn’t think twice about giving them the recommendation, and I have done that very thing with older uprights with PianoDisc installed. Just be sure to give them full disclosure that they will never be able to recoup their investment. What they’ll have is a very unique piece: a beautiful antique piano that plays and sounds nice and fits their needs. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoAutoSig><b><span style='font-size:20.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:navy'>Dean</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoAutoSig><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:AGaramond;color:navy'>Dean W May                        (812) 235-5272 voice and text</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoAutoSig><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:AGaramond;color:navy'><a href="http://pianorebuilders.com/" target="_blank">PianoRebuilders.com</a>           (888) DEAN-MAY         </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoAutoSig><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:AGaramond;color:navy'>Terre Haute IN 47802           Give us a LIKE on Facebook! <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/PianoRebuilderscom/137780082943148" target="_blank">Go to PianoRebuilders.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Noah Frere<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> pianotech@ptg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [pianotech] Upright price</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I gave an estimate for repairs/assessment last week of a 90 year old Werner upright who's player components had been removed. The insides were as expected, though on the better side. Only one broken note (hammer flange), few if any cracks in soundboard/bridges. However, the sound was clearly 90 years old and the bobbling hammers, etc. left much to be desired. <br><br>The seller was asking $275, to which I immediately responded (the potential buyer and I were alone) that it was too much, and I would ask for it for $50, but go up to $100 or even $150. Soon afterwards my attention went back to the case, which I had forgotten about, and realized it was in very good condition. The owner came in, and, hearing about the condition of the interior, and the $100 offer, began to cry. She needed to sleep on it. <br><br>As the hours and days progressed, I started double-guessing myself. Had I over-emphasized the interior while ignoring the quality exterior? <br>Maybe it <i>was </i>worth $275. <br><br>Hmm...<o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2101/4646 - Release Date: 11/29/11<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>