<html> <body> Ryan - I did read it.  Oh, snap.  You're not talking to me.  You're talking to that other David. L. Oh well.  What I (David S {kolnik, not tanwood}) wrote here still goes.> The difference I think we have is that I'm still inclined to defer to the implied distinction as to what goes here and what to PTG-L.  I've made it clear that I see a very difficult blending of the issues, but I continue to believe that we need to try to discern the difference. Cheers (until Brekne returns) David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson, NY At 03:03 AM 1/4/2012, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">David, If you read through my entire post below (I know it is probably tedious) I clearly stated that it is possible that a new Board could do worse than what we have now. I'm a realist when it comes to that. My argument has only been that the current Board's philosophy of governance in handling this issue may not be the most effective in my opinion. My original post simply stated that the current board has invested so much time and energy into this project that it may be impossible for them to cut the losses and start from scratch with a truly up-to-date effective system that isn't a Facebook wannabe. Earlier in my career I invested way to much time, energy, and money in trying to rebuild a PSO that I should never have gotten involved with. It was an albatross around my neck until my wife finally convinced me to set a hard deadline, upon which if said piano was still hanging around it would subsequently be added to the assets of the county landfill. The deadline came and the piano went. A great weight was lifted and I was able to get on with better and more rewarding projects. What happens in the future is going to be the result of political will. I'm skeptical the general membership has a strong enough opinion about this whole thing to effect any sort of change. After all it is a very small minority of members who use the lists to begin with. Its hard enough getting folks to show up for a chapter meeting. The biggest disappointment, to me, is how something as cool and useful to the piano technician community as these Lists have been made into something less effective and useful. I know some think it's great, but I believe a majority don't see it as in improvement and don't expect it go get much better any time soon. I won't be surprised if in two or three years the "new and improved" system ends up on the scrap heap. Ryan On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:34 PM, David Love <<a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net"> davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a>> wrote: <dl> <dd>I say, if Jim says they are working on it then let them work on it.  The suggestion to replace the board so that we can be assured of having a better and more accommodating website/list interface is getting a bit ridiculous and a new board is no guarantee of anything. <dd>David Love <dd><a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> <dd>  <dd>From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ryan Sowers <dd>Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 1:01 PM <dd>To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> <dd>Subject: Re: [pianotech] mailman list <dd>  <dd>Jim, <dd>  <dd>Maybe we are not in agreement as to what the word "political" means. When I refer to the decision being political I'm simply saying that it was a governance decision by those currently in power, based on their philosophical orientation towards the PTG and its membership. <dd>  <dd>The very statement that  "It is Inevitable  that it will end as we know it." is a reflection of the political thinking on the Board." and is an obvious reflection of the Board's political outlook. The political reality is that if a new Board were elected who had a different agenda, then things could work out very differently. <dd>  <dd>Saying that the old list is like a horse and buggy, or a rotary phone is amusing. To me the NEW site is more like a horse and buggy (emphasis on buggy) and the horse apparently is not well trained.  <dd>  <dd>I think this all happened because of a major political disconnect between the main contributors to the old  list and the political leadership. It really is like someone coming in and swapping your beloved old piano and sticking a new digital keyboard with lots of bells and whistles. <dd>  <dd> No matter how much you try to argue that the electronic keyboard is better than the old piano (because it is more modern and full of interesting features), there will be many intelligent and thoughtful people who preferred the old piano. This is not because they are Luddites. It is because it met the needs of the users better. <dd>  <dd>I'm not really criticizing the Board on this. They have every right, based on the political structure of the Guild, to make the decisions that they do. I'm sure they are doing the best that they can. A new Board may do worse. My original point was that if people are truly unhappy with the direction the PTG has taken in handling this issue, electing new representatives is a reasonable approach. <dd>  <dd> Whether or not there is the political will within the PTG to enact this kind of change is a completely different issue. <dd>  <dd>Ryan <dd>  <dd>  <dd>  <dd>On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Coleman, Jim <<a href="mailto:jcolem21@utk.edu">jcolem21@utk.edu</a>> wrote: <dd>  <dd>Folks, there is nothing political about whether this List survives or not. It is Inevitable  that it will end as we know it.  Just like the wagon in the pioneer days, party lines, the dial telephone, analog television and cell phones the size of a brick, the world/technology continues to move on. <dd>  <dd>PTG, through most of it's history, has been behind the curve.  Many of you will remember a phrase Fern Henry (one of our outstanding Presidents) used back in the '90s...PTG has finally joined the 20th century. <dd>That was less than 10 years from the 21st century! <dd>  <dd>It is clearly understood by this Board as well as last year's that the new website was launched too soon and without enough beta testing.  We have good people working on the problems and you will know well in advance when we are ready to reintroduce the improved site. <dd>  <dd>In the meantime let's all work together for a better PTG. <dd>  <dd>  <dd>Jim Coleman, Jr  RPT <dd>Staff Piano Technician- <dd>   University of Tennessee <dd>President- <dd>     Piano Technicians Guild <dd>  <dd>  <dd>-- <dd>Ryan Sowers, RPT <dd>Puget Sound Chapter <dd>Olympia, WA <dd><a href="http://www.pianova.net">www.pianova.net</a> </dl> -- Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter Olympia, WA <a href="http://www.pianova.net">www.pianova.net</a></blockquote></body> </html>