I think you're spot on with your observations, William. I hope that we convey an encouragement of lively discussions from within or without the membership qualifications withstanding.  There will be, unfortunately always,  a sour apple, who deem it upon themselves to disrupt a constant flow of good information on current topics to further promote the well-being of the guild or what we all want;  more information to the betterment of our dearly beloved keyboard instruments that we so dearly love to work on. I'm sad to say that I, too, have fed the weeds who disrupt the flow with negativity, and for that, I must apologize.  I want only the best for the Guild and its members, and still encourage those who visit our conversations to give and take information with the best of intentions from those who contribute.  I tire of those who can't seem to grasp the need for quick and informative answers and just stick to subjects at hand.  One bad apple won't destroy the whole bunch. I guess there will always be somewhat of a disruption of this flow from characters who don't seem to see the "big picture", but continue to disrupt the flow with meaningless banter.  I, for one, will discontinue contributing to the current culpret who we all know, and hopefully, with all your help; we can get more constructive inputs from him to hopefully better the topics at hand as well as further situations we face from day to day. Best, Paul T. Williams RPT Piano Technician School of Music University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0100 pwilliams4@unl.edu <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td>From: <td>William Monroe <bill@a440piano.net> <tr valign=top> <td>To: <td>pianotech@ptg.org <tr valign=top> <td>Date: <td>01/06/2012 01:18 PM <tr valign=top> <td>Subject: <td>Re: [pianotech] mailman list - explanation of HL messages</table> <hr noshade> Critique is fine, Ryan.  What Joe (I interpret) is suggesting is that being a "squeaky wheel," or, a constant, harping annoyance like Duaine, does no good.  Make the critiques, which I think most of us in the organization accept, but after the point has been made, I don't think it's realistic for non-members to be constantly prodding the various leadership individuals of our organization to satisfy their "needs" as non-members.  Someone mentioned before the idea that non-members are not entitled to "rights."  I agree.  Does that mean we don't value their input?  Of course not.  Suggesting that would be rather thoughtless.  Do we want non-members as part of our community?  OF COURSE!  Their membership status has nothing to do with the validity of their knowledge and insights. As I said, I have always felt that criticisms are taken seriously, no matter their origin.  But someone like Duaine is simply a nuisance with no capability for intelligent dialogue (there, I said it).  Just look at his recent interpretation of Joe's email that we are responding to.  How DOES one make that kind of interpretation and seriously think there's any merit in it?  It's pretty obtuse, pretty well mired in his own agenda. Again, I believe (and I bet Joe does too) that serious, thoughtful criticisms and suggestions are taken seriously no matter their origin. William R. Monroe On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Ryan Sowers <<a href=mailto:tunerryan@gmail.com>tunerryan@gmail.com</a>> wrote: Joe, I understand your perspective and have tended to agree with it in the past. These days I see one of the problems of PTG is that it is too self-absorbed as an organization. Just because someone is not a member it doesn't follow that they can't contribute and have something to say. There are some brilliant technicians who are not members - Bill Spurlock and Joel Rappaport come to mind. PTG doesn't have a monopoly on the truth and we should be open to critique no matter where it comes from. That's one way we move forward. Ryan On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Joseph Garrett <<a href=mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net target=_blank>joegarrett@earthlink.net</a>> wrote: The Heckler said: "Or YEAP! The squeakiest wheel gets the attention and grease." Duaine, In order to get the grease, you need to be an integral part of the machine!! Otherwise, you get sent to the scrap heap!<G> Just my take on it. Joe Joe Garrett, R.P.T. Captain of the Tool Police Squares R I