<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>Isn’t what I said below just plain ole common sense?   Why does it always have to be someone else’s fault when some people didn’t have any problem at all doing the same thing?  <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Note, that I said, “could be and probably is user error.”  I am mainly just tired of the emails that have little to do with pianos.  Some of people seem to enjoy clogging up the system complaining about things and that can go on for weeks sometimes.   <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>OK, here is what I “think.”  The people that have no clue at all about computers or have an old/er system are likely to have more problems and a lot less understanding on what to do than those that have a better/newer system.  That should be pretty well understood.  I most certainly, do not claim to be an expert in that field at all.  I am not.  But, I would imagine that it would depend on just exactly what the problem is, some computers could have a virus going on and not be aware of it, or a firewall that is preventing them from getting in and they don’t know how to turn it off or allow it to accept certain web sites and it might depend on what kind of connection the user has.  Or, maybe the user is screwing up their own password and not even realizing it.  Perhaps they reset their password and/or forgot it?  That would be my first “guess.”  I’ve done that myself.  A very slow dial up system that can’t handle what they are attempting to do could prevent them from getting in maybe.  Maybe their own computer is overloaded with stuff and needs to be cleaned out?  Maybe the whole internet system at that time and place was being used to much and it over loaded system.  Maybe a computer that is old.  I don’t know but, those are my thoughts and guesses on it.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Encore Pianos Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:48 AM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] In agreement with David, NOT<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p>Ok, Gerald, you have made an argument that it is the user’s fault.  Now support that argument with facts.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Will Truitt<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Gerald Groot Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:36 AM To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Subject: Re: [pianotech] In agreement with David, NOT<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p>Yes, I was, trying to be NICE.  I have read ENOUGH of it to see that half of the people complaining or more, need to know more about how to use their own damned computer or get rid it and/or upgrade the stupid thing.  They complain about something they don’t understand that isn’t working because of “probably” something on THEIR end and then blame it on something or someone else.  An easy out.  Sounds like a customer complaint. You just tuned my piano and now it does this and that but it didn’t before..…………   <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]">[mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]</a> On Behalf Of David Skolnik Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:34 AM To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Subject: [pianotech] In agreement with David, NOT<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] [in agreement with David   David I agree with you,  Have been with program for years,  Let the PTG Do there job,  If dues is the problem for others,  put up or shut up. Lets get back to the program PIANOS.   Over the years we have gained much knowledge which is worth more then the dues we pay. Please move on. Don Lemoine Florida Chapter.<o:p></o:p></blockquote> While it's generally nice to be agreed with, I'm afraid I have to disagree with such this time.  What was quoted from an earlier post of mine was in a different context - I haven't bothered to requote it here.  In general, probably to my detriment, I'm not a big fan of "moving on", unless the issue has descended into total irrelevance.  There were/are reasons to continue pursuing certain aspects of this thread here.  There seem to be many members of this particular list (PTG members and non) who have continued to refrain from engaging with the web lists.  They are either making a political statement or just assuming that things will go along as they have, indefinitely.  The problem Will was having had nothing to do with the web lists vs. this list.  It was, as a PTG member, being stymied in doing what he was theoretically supposed to be able to do, as a PTG member, by a product, acquired by the organization, that seems to have persisted in not performing as expected.  To the extent that such decisions ultimately affect this list, everyone has a stake.  PTG members have an additional stake in that they are paying for it.  On that level, the place to discuss it is PTG-L, to which they/we are all pre-authorized.  <o:p></o:p>Let the PTG Do there job<o:p></o:p>There, their Don.  We Are PTG. (And So Can You!). And, no one was complaining about having to pay dues.  Au contraire, the complaint was NOT being able to pay them. As for Gerald Groot's "whiners and complainers".  that starts to sound like so much code.  But let's just look at one statement:<o:p></o:p>I haven’t read hardly any of the dues crap.  Just a few people bitching as usual.  But, for all of you complaining about not being able to sign in, much of it could very well be “user error” as I never have problems signing in<o:p></o:p> If he hasn't hardly read any of it, he should have little reason to be exorcized about it.  But, most appealing is the implied logic (not higher logic): it might be user error, he never has any problem signing in, therefore, it was user error, therefore, shut up. Now, about pianos...  what's a piano? David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson Go to PTG-L  -  It's Happening, or will be. At 07:59 AM 2/2/2012, Gerald Groot wrote:<o:p></o:p>I haven’t read hardly any of the dues crap.  Just a few people bitching as usual.  But, for all of you complaining about not being able to sign in, much of it could very well be “user error” as I never have problems signing in and you do all know there is such a thing as picking the phone and paying dues over the phone line don’t you?   Or you could send in a money order, or cashier’s check or a business check or a bill pay.  There really is nothing wrong with the old fashioned way of doing things either.    The whiners and complainers on here have gotten me to the point where I don’t even care much to be a part of it.  I use the delete button 98 % of the time now.    Jer   From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Donald Lemoine Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:28 AM To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Subject: Re: [pianotech] [in agreement with David   David I agree with you,  Have been with program for years,  Let the PTG Do there job,  If dues is the problem for others,  put up or shut up. Lets get back to the program PIANOS.   Over the years we have gained much knowledge which is worth more then the dues we pay. Please move on. Don Lemoine Florida Chapter.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p></div></body></html>