<html> <body> Nick - There was some discussion about this a few years ago.  I'd say 'check the archives' but, frankly, I still don't know how to use them.  I'd probably do better scouting my own archives which go back to around 2005 or 6.  Anyway, a few options were mentioned at that time.  Jon Page, I think, described using a double-hose shop-vac.  Run the exhaust hose out a window.  I've tried it and it works, if you can hook up a convenient way to position the hose, without blocking your view, your hands or the light A couple of fans that blow the air past you (with one set to 'draw' the air away from where the primary would be depositing the fumes Dryburgh sells (I think, still) a low vapor version, which simply has a heavier molecule (along with a heavier $) which settles away from your face faster, although, it would seem that this characteristic would be made irrelevant if using a fan. My own bad experience with the fumes, in a contained area, was their blocking effect on my nasal passages.  I don't remember right now how I resolved it, but it was scary enough to take a trip over to the ER. Hope that is only minorly useless. David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson, NY At 10:49 AM 2/13/2012, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Dean, Thanks for the details on the CA pins thing. I assume you use thin viscosity glue. How do  you avoid the sometimes overpowering vapor action and even stinging sensations to the eyes? I haven't used the bulb applicators; apparently they don't clog up with use? Or do you need to have several on hand due to clogging? Thanks for any additional info. NG On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:55 AM, Dean May <<a href="mailto:deanmay@pianorebuilders.com"> deanmay@pianorebuilders.com</a>> wrote: <dl> <dd>>>Is there a limit on just how loose a pin can be and still accept a CA treatment? <dd>  <dd>The only limits I've seen are on one old upright with a severely damaged pin block. In the situation you've described, i.e., a block good enough to respond to oversize pins, I've never had CA not work, even on pins as loose as you are describing. <dd>  <dd>Usually, all you need is enough CA to do a good soak on the bushing. I normally only do 2 passes. If you know where the problem areas are and they are pretty bad, go ahead and give those sections 3 passes. The CA needs a little time to set up, especially if the pin has taken a fair amount of glue. So don't panic if it doesn't tighten up instantly, just tune the rest of the piano and it should be tight by the time you are done. <dd>  <dd>On a normal CA application now I use about 1.5 oz. I buy it in the big 8 oz bottle and use bulb syringe applicators. <dd>  <dd> <img src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20120213110959.06282ee8@optonline.net.1" width=342 height=245 alt="[]"> <dd>  <dd>For a particularly problematic pin, twist the pin back and forth while you apply CA to the base. This will allow more glue to penetrate deeper. <dd>  <dd>Worst case, you can also pull the pin out and squirt a little down in the hole, coating the sides. You don't need to over do it. You could even put an oversize pin in there while you have the original out if you feel you need the insurance. Personally, I cannot fathom the need to do all the pins in oversize when CA works so well. I have not put in a set of oversize pins in more than 10 years. <dd>  <dd>For a grand, of course, pull the action first and line the keybed with newspaper. For a vertical, you can lay it down until you get a little more experience with it. But I’ve done them vertically for the last 5 years or so. It just takes a little extra care but saves hugely on time and drama. <dd>  <dd>  <dd>Dean <dd>  <dd>Dean W May <a href="tel:%28812%29%20235-5272">(812) 235-5272</a> voice and text <dd>  <dd>PianoRebuilders.com (888) DEAN-MAY <dd>  <dd>Terre Haute IN 47802 <dd>  <dd>  <dd>-----Original Message----- <dd>From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Rob McCall <dd>Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:16 AM <dd>To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> <dd>Subject: Re: [pianotech] open letter to CA users..??? <dd>  <dd>The client had the budget for a repinning but not a restringing. All the pins are out now.  About 75% of them came out okay with minimal effort. The other 25% ended up getting cut close to the becket as possible, and then recoiled with a new becket.  The pinblock seemed in good shape. I checked the pinblock as thoroughly as possible and I didn't see any apparent issues with it. <dd>  <dd>It's in a 1983 Sherman Clay SDG2.  The new pins are going in today and they are holding nicely. The bass section is pretty much done and all new pins are tight in the pinblock. It just took a lot longer than I was expecting to get the old pins out. <dd>  <dd>I didn't realize there was a previous CA treatment until I started backing out the pins, and I do have a nice drill to do that, at least...  :-) <dd>  <dd>I don't know that more CA would've worked.  Most of the bass section wasn't just loose -- the tuning pin would not hold even the slightest tuning. It took about 60° of turn to bring it to pitch, and then when you let go it would unwind right back to where it started. It seemed way too loose for me for CA, but then my experience is limited on the edge of the envelope stuff for CA. Is there a limit on just how loose a pin can be and still accept a CA treatment? <dd>  <dd>Regards, <dd>  <dd>Rob McCall <dd>  <dd>McCall Piano Service, LLC <dd> <a href="http://www.mccallpiano.com">www.mccallpiano.com</a> <dd>Murrieta, CA <dd><a href="tel:951-698-1875"> 951-698-1875</a> <dd>  <dd>On Feb 12, 2012, at 22:01 , Ron Nossaman wrote: <dd>  <dd>> On 2/12/2012 11:50 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote: <dd>>> Why bother? The whole idea is to get rid of the tuning pins and the <dd>>> wire, is it not. Who cares if the wire is locked into/onto the tuning <dd>>> pins? The whole mess will wind up in the circular file anyway. Right? <dd>>> Joe <dd>>> <dd>>>    ----- Original Message ----- <dd>>>    *From:* John Ross <<a href="mailto:jrpiano@eastlink.ca" eudora="autourl"> mailto:jrpiano@eastlink.ca</a>> <dd>>>    *To: *<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a> <dd>>>    <<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net" eudora="autourl"> mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net</a> >;<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> <dd>>>    <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech@ptg.org</a>> <dd>>>    *Sent:* 2/12/2012 9:47:46 PM <dd>>>    *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] open letter to CA users..??? <dd>>> <dd>>>    I would try a becket breaker. <dd>>>    John Ross <dd>>>    Windsor, Nova Scotia <dd>> <dd>> <dd>> Uh, fellas, didn't he say he was repinning, not restringing? <dd>> <dd>> And Rob, why didn't the CA work where an oversize pin will? Is the block intact enough for that? Will a better application of CA to what's there do it and bypass the problem of getting the coils off altogether? <dd>> Ron N <dd>> </dl> -- Nick Gravagne, RPT AST Mechanical Engineering Content-id: <image001.jpg@01CCEA24.BD40BB00> Content-type: image/jpeg; name=image001.jpg Content-disposition: attachment; filename=image001.jpg X-Attachment-Id: 9e4c6e2e74d1689b_0.1 </blockquote></body> </html>