<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:ns0="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Slam dunk, score. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Ed your explanations in the past re: WT more than any other persuaded me to take the plunge. I’ve been tuning almost exclusively in WT now for around 3 years. I love it. Please do not get tired of making the case, curmudgeon factor aside. J<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Dean<o:p></o:p> Dean W May                        (812) 235-5272 voice and text<o:p></o:p> PianoRebuilders.com           (888) DEAN-MAY         <o:p></o:p> <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:PLACE u2:st="on"><U2:CITY u1:st="on"><ns0:City w:insAuthor="Dean May" w:insDate="2012-05-01T13:38:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Dean May" w:endInsDate="2012-05-01T13:38:00Z"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Terre Haute</st1:City></st1:place></ns0:City></U2:CITY> <ns0:State w:insAuthor="Dean May" w:insDate="2012-05-01T13:38:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Dean May" w:endInsDate="2012-05-01T13:38:00Z"><U2:STATE u1:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">IN</U2:STATE></st1:State></ns0:State> <ns0:PostalCode w:insAuthor="Dean May" w:insDate="2012-05-01T13:38:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Dean May" w:endInsDate="2012-05-01T13:38:00Z"><U2:POSTALCODE u1:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on">47802</st1:PostalCode>           Give us a LIKE on Facebook! <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/PianoRebuilderscom/137780082943148">Go to PianoRebuilders.com</a></U2:POSTALCODE></ns0:PostalCode><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ed Foote Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 1:23 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stealth temperaments<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Joseph writes:  >> have to point out that you are describing just the kind of "noise" that experimental designs seek to factor out. Selective responses, non-random assignment, selective attention, selective memory of what certain people have said <snip>. You've tipped your hand by saying, "makes me wonder if some pianists even listen . . . " – there you go presuming your point has already been proven (i.e. that there is a real difference in these tunings) And you are relying on anecdote, which in a fair setting is never acceptable as evidence.<<<o:p></o:p> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div>       In the liner notes of one of my CD's, the pianist, Enid Katahn, states that  pianists seldom have time to actually listen. Before her introduction to WT, she has said there was little reason to pay any attention to the tuning, "because it was beyond my control and it all sounded the same".  This is an artist talking about the experience of playing.  I didn't question it.  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>         If, for some reason, you are making the case that there isn't a real difference between a Young temperament and ET, then we have a completely different discussion needed before we go any further. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> >>In re: the D tuning: the fact that you told " . . .(no one but) the artist" completely contaminates the results. Do you think what you told the artist could not have affected the way he performed, and hence the way the rest of the orchestra  might have played?!<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div>      The artist was familiar with a wide range of temperaments, and informing her of which one was on the piano was no more than a pit crew member telling the race driver how much air pressure there is in the tires. The orchestra was students, with all their malleable grasp of pitch,  and had been practicing with another piano, in ET, during the previous week.  I can't explain why their intonation with the WT  impressed their conductor, but who would deny the plausibility of a tonal center assisting the string players in their playing?  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> <div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_a1d320b7-afee-4348-befc-a97b3dde78b5"> <div> >> And you're right, there are too many variables and too much subjectivity involved in these matters to corral it into the realm of true scientific study. But that doesn't mean you are left free to assert that your unscientific samples and anecdotes are corroborative of any theory whatever !<< <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div>      If the  only evidence that is acceptable for making decisions on which temperament to use is to come from a laboratory setting, I think we would still be using meantone.  I have asserted my theory that the choice of temperament is a factor in the emotional impact of piano music.  I am particularly interested in any scientific evidence that refutes that, but I haven't seen it happen, yet.  I have seen masses of critical listeners compare the sound of two identical pianos, tuned with identical stretches, differing only in temperament.  The overwhelming preference has been for the WT, and it was a mild one, at that. I don't discount this response simply because I lack scientific evidence that it is not clinically "clean".  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>      <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> "My piano has never sounded so good" is indeed a welcome response, and personally I am glad to try and sell that experience. I don't kid myself, however, into thinking there might not be about a hundred reasons they might have said that . . . or truly believed that . . . "<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div>      I have heard that from many customers that have had me tune for them for years.  When the only thing to change is the temperament, and they start gushing, I look for the linkage.   Most of them are professionals, either studio musicians, teachers, performers, or song-writers, (<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nashville</st1:place></st1:City> is infested with song-writers). They are not paying attention to much other than what the piano sounds like.  Many of them have extremely well developed ears for everything musical so smoke and mirrors don't go very far with this crowd. ( and I don't think my sparkling personality makes the difference.)<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> >>Are you certain you heard that "never sounded so good" statement with greater frequency after you switched over?<<<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> yes, see above<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> >>Could it be that your customer relationships and reputation are simply getting better, and so people say more nice things about your work??<<<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div>      I had been in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nashville</st1:place></st1:City>, following my time at the North Bennett school, for 17 years before I began to explore the alternative tunings.  I think the town was pretty used to me by that time.  And now, by this stage of the game, the curmudgeon index has begun to rise and I am simply trying to stay in front of the downward spiral. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> >>In re your final comment: maybe your tunings just got BETTER (more stable, more accurate, more consistent, better fitted to the instrument at hand) IRRESPECTIVE of whether you used an ET or not ? <<<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div>    By 1993, my tunings had been well honed in the recording studios and concert stages here.  In all honesty, I was probably a better tuner then, but  to my ears, the difference between ET and a WT is sufficiently  profound to dwarf the difference between my tuning then and now.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>              Yes, I have made an assertion on what I believe the value of well-tempering to be.  It is based on what I hear from the piano, and from the customers that are paying me top dollar, (and have for the last 33 years).   In the absence of scientific evidence to the contrary, the lack of scientific evidence supporting this assertion is scant reason to believe otherwise.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Regards,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>        <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  Ed Foote RPT<o:p></o:p> </div> http://www.piano-tuners.org/edfoote/index.html <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> </div> </div> </div>  </body> </html>