<font color='black' size='2' face='Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif'><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px; ">H</span><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">mm,   I don't know, exactly, what I signed up for, but I get emails from both lists.  I can respond to them as emails.  I don't see strange posts when I take the trouble to go to the PTG website and crawl through the labryinth to the postings. </font> <div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">Am I missing something, ?<br> </font><br> <div style="font-size: 13px; clear: both; "><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">Ed Foote RPT<br> http://www.piano-tuners.org/edfoote/index.html</font></div> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Encore Pianos <encorepianos@metrocast.net><br> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org><br> Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 4:36 pm<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Gen-u-whine Steinway parts:OT RANT<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547"> <style>#AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 td{color: black;} @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Consolas; panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 p.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 li.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} #AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 a:link,#AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} #AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 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#AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 span.EmailStyle28 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; color:black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #AOLMsgPart_1_dc525cd8-af76-470a-8cc0-ab3b266c5547 div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} </style> <div class="WordSection1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I would rather see those who are in the position to do so start the search again for something that would replace both the old list and the HL one.  I think I would slash my wrists if I had to use the HL list exclusively.  I haven’t done a head count, but it seems to me that more people are still using the old list over the new one.  I get everything from both lists dumped into my Outlook Mailbox, and just delete anything I do not want to keep.  One could only hope that the search for a better replacement would be done with greater wisdom and the benefit of hindsight with HL’s problems and quirks.  </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Will</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></div> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Love<br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 02, 2012 5:15 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] Gen-u-whine Steinway parts:OT RANT</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">It could and it has.  Your take on my meaning is correct.  Early 20<sup>th</sup> century iterations seemed to have a more integrated concept even if there were some warts.  </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">I’m not sure that consistency was part of the plan, exactly.   Rib scales vary on boards of similar models, for example.  Was that because the workers were missing the mark or were workers given a range of acceptable parameters and those differences accounted for different outcomes.  Perhaps that was a desirable thing.  Or panel thinning, for example.  Panel thinning was done by hand with a plane.  Some variation was inevitable there as well.  Fazioli does that with a computer guided router or something similar.  Computer driven manufacturing certainly produces more consistent outcomes.  But some variability can be a good thing if you want to see how small differences might impact the overall sound.   The “distinct personality” euphemism is something I’ve generally dismissed as a cover for less than optimal outcomes.  But leeway in execution can have its benefits too, at least with bellies.  You get to see what happens.   Actions, well, that’s a different story.   I would argue for precise and uniform execution in that area.  Steinway has been lacking there for reasons we’ve discussed in previous conversations (inconsistent capstan placement mostly).  </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Re the two list comments.  I agree.  The existence of two lists is not doing either one any good.  The discussions that happened before the advent of the new list were more in depth and interesting, albeit more volatile.  Though I will surely be heavily criticized for this comment, it would be best for participation if they just shut down one or the other.  </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">David Love</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com">www.davidlovepianos.com</a></span></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]">[mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Encore Pianos<br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 02, 2012 11:16 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] Gen-u-whine Steinway parts:OT RANT</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Not really, this subject could turn into <i>War and Peace</i>, couldn’t it?  </span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:black">J</span><span style="color:black">  But, fair enough.  I think the gist of my question was if you were moving back towards Original Principles (whatever they are!) ala Steinway in your work.  But I take you to mean here that the design of a piano is a complex, interactive system where making changes in one place can sometimes have unintended consequences in others, so one must always be mindful.  </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I can’t help but think that the factory drifted away from ways of executing procedures that resulted in very consistent, high quality work, having forgotten why they had established those protocols in the first place.  The 20’s was likely a time when the factory had worked hard to evolve these standards and really had their shit together.  Rebuilding those pianos seemed easier to get a pleasing result in my experience, because so many things were set up well originally.  Steinways from the 1940’s on are quite a different animal in these respects.</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I have noticed that it is taking place in two different places.  The fact that we have two lists has diminished the vitality of the discussion, and the number of people participating.  A couple of years ago, some incredibly interesting threads would get going that would continue for a long time.   A number of highly knowledgeable people would engage at great depth.  Incredibly interesting and educational.  Blew the journal out of the water in what it could give anyone who was interested.  Those discussions are, with rare exception, for the most part gone.  That’s sad, and completely lost to those who have made the changes to Pianotech and who will make the decisions for the future.   They don’t look at it deeply enough to know the difference, because they don’t participate in the process.  Ah, the Peter Principle.    </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Will   </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div> </div> </div>  </div> </div> </font>