<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div id=AOLMsgPart_1_95ba31ff-1d4e-4aba-928e-62c6589b4a66><FONT color=black size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT><br> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3px"><PRE><TT>SO, YES, PEOPLE, I do do a certain amount of checks - just not specifically the "aural tuning" checks. Duaine</PRE></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></div> <div>Well Duanie, what do you think you're listening to when you tune an octave? Don't you "here"  a wow wow of some sort?  I'm not sure if you realize it, but that is what we refer to as the beats. </div> <div> </div> <div>Reminds me of a story my dad told me once. A "big city" tuner drove across the country, and stopped in a diner in a small town in the middle of the prairie. He saw a piano in the corner, and made a deal with the owner of the place, to tune the piano for a couple of meals and a room to stay in. As he was tuning the piano he noticed a guy sitting in the corner, watching his every move. After a while the tuner asked him what he was doing. He said. "I'm the local tuner, and I went to one of them convention once, where they talked about beats in the piano. When I got home, I just about took the whole piano apart looking for the beats, but could never find any. I can hear them, but I can't see them."</div> <div> </div> <div>Maybe the reason you can't "here" the beats is because you don't know what to listen for. Play a C3 -0 E3 third, and tell me what you hear. If the piano is tuned properly, it's called the natural vibrato of the piano.  <br> </div> <div>Wim<br> </div> <div style="CLEAR: both"> <div> </div> </div> <br> <br> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Duaine Hechler <dahechler@att.net><br> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org><br> Sent: Thu, May 10, 2012 6:59 pm<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Old can of worms (was Re: tunelab vs verituner)<br> <br> <div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12px" id=AOLMsgPart_0_53974ed4-ec90-4cf8-bfd8-3f080072a64f><PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>On 05/10/2012 04:07 PM, <A href="mailto:tnrwim@aol.com">tnrwim@aol.com</A> wrote: > > I see where you are headed BUT you are embarking on the wrong path ....... > > These customers ONLY believe in getting there pianos tuned once ever 2-20 years > > And, its only so badly out-of-tune, even they can't stand it ! > > I've even be told either (a) it hasn't been tuned in over 20+ years (b) it's > never been tuned. > > Nice try.............. > > Duaine > > Duaine > You've not answered my question. You said you don't understand how to set a temperament. I want to know why you don't > want to learn that. It's one thing to rely solely on your ETD, which is fine if that's the way you want to tune, and > you seem to think it's making your customers happy when they see you once every 10 years. But the question remains, > why don't you want to understand how a temperament works? I'm not asking for you to learn to set an temperament > aurally. But don't you at least want to know what's involved in setting one? FIRST TAKE NOTE: Tuning a piano is a walk in the breeze compared to tuning a Reed Organ. For those, if the note is SHARP you have to - scrap - away enough BRASS from the BASE of the reed. If the note is FLAT, you have to - scrap - away enough BRASS from the TIP of the reed. - which - means taking the reed in and out of the reed cell, every time you need to make an adjustment. AND then play the note long enough to make sure the note does not start "rolling" - meaning that the notes are so close that it takes a long time for it start a "beat" (AKA, PERFECT) And, yes, I use Cybertuner, there is NO stretch in reed organs. Also, for tuning a "Celeste" stop, the base set of reeds has to be absolutely PERFECT before you can tune the Celeste reeds. Now for the hard part, which is why I use the Cybertuner, as you know, the higher the note the faster that notes' beat. (AKA cycles per second) Well, with the two reeds played together make a certain beat rate (aka Celeste). Now, without a computer, you would have to set there and for each set of notes count the beats AND constantly comparing the note you are tuning with each neighbor. But with Cybertuner, I just create a Celeste tuning file with each respective notes' offset and proceed to tune that set of reeds. Now, when that is done, you have a perfect Celeste tuning. ---------------------------------------------------------- Well, here we go again with this !!!!! In temperament tuning, we have to be able to the here the BEATS. I can here beats as far as tuning unisons. However, trying to here beats between two notes is impossible. WHEN I WAS, at my last convention, I took Jim Coleman Sr. class for begging aural tuning. I don't know if it was the acoustics or the piano but I just could not here a thing. So at that point I gave it up forever !!!!! > Another question I asked once when this subject came up before. You said that after you've tuned the whole piano, if > there are a few unisons that are out, you can touch them up by ear. That's great to know. But there are three strings > for a unison. How do you know which one of those three strings is at the right pitch? Or do you just match the outside > strings to the middle one, and call it "in tune"? Well, so I don't have to repeat myself again for the umpteenth time, I do an octave test on the middle string first, then go from there. SO, YES, PEOPLE, I do do a certain amount of checks - just not specifically the "aural tuning" checks. Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 <A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</A> <A href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com/" target=_blank>www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</A> -- Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years </TT></PRE></div> </div> </FONT></div> </div> </font>