<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Joe et al.,</div><div><br></div><div>Many thanks for all the helpful info; very much appreciated. Sorry to make everybody run down this path again, but this hasn't been discussed since I've been a list member, and I can never seem to remember how to search the old archives (always write it down someplace, and then can't find it when I need it!).</div><div><br></div><div>My estimate of charges for 5 hours included 45 minutes travel each way, and what I thought it would take to be worth it to me. Seems I wasn't that far off, maybe 4 hours would do it.</div><div><div><div><br></div><font face="Verdana,Helvetica,Arial"><span style="font-size:14.0px">Paul Milesi RPT<br>
Washington DC<br>
(202) 246-3136 Cell/Text<br>
paul@pmpiano.com<br><a href="http://www.pmpiano.com">http://www.pmpiano.com</a></span></font></div></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Joseph Garrett <<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> Joseph Garrett <<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a>>, PTG Pianotech List <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:30 AM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Euphonious Thumpe <<a href="mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com">lclgcnp@yahoo.com</a>>, PTG Pianotech List <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [pianotech] Beefing up spring rails for better touch uniformity.<br></div><div><br></div><div style="FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif; FONT-SIZE: x-small"><meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19222"><div><div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Ah, sounds like it's a "make it work" sort of thang.<G> Or,....whatever will work?<G> Aluminum stock is certainly something I use a lot ot. It's good for jigs, straightedges and repairs on all sorts of stuff. Brass is, also, one of my favorite thangs. Since the home office/warehouse of Alaska Copper & Brass, is in Portland, AND, one of my clients is a mucky-muck there, I do use more than my share of brass.<G></div><div>Joe</div><div></div></div><div> </div><blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><div style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="lclgcnp@yahoo.com" href="mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com">Euphonious Thumpe</a> </div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To: </b><a title="joegarrett@earthlink.net" href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a></div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> 5/12/2012 8:07:27 AM </div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Beefing up spring rails for better touch uniformity.</div><div><br></div><font size="2"><div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><div><span>Haven't done this for a while, so don't quite remember. But believe that one was 1/2" on each leg, the other was 1/2" on one leg, 3/4' on other. ( Choice depending on what would fit. </span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Euphonious Thumpe<br></div><div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"><div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class="hr" contenteditable="false" readonly="true"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Joseph Garrett <<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Euphonious Thumpe <<a href="mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com">lclgcnp@yahoo.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:51 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: Beefing up spring rails for better touch uniformity.<br></font></div><br><div id="yiv836596223"><div><div><div>Thumper,</div><div>Your message, definately took a "left turn".<G> I don't see any mention of warped hammer spring rails, on this subject.<G> It is relevant tho, in a sideways sort of "Thumper" way..<G> Is the aluminum angle equal sided? I suspect that it would be a toss-up as to how long it takes to make a new rail and cutting/drilling/screwing an aluminum angle to an existing, albeit, warped hammer spring rail.<G> I'd opt for a new rail, slightly redesigned to offset possible "warpage". You are correct about the touch uniformity..er...somewhat.<G></div><div>That's my take on that.</div><div>Joe</div><div> </div><div></div></div><div> </div><blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><div style="FONT: 10pt Arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message ----- </div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b> <a title="lclgcnp@yahoo.com" href="mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com">Euphonious Thumpe</a> </div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>To: </b><a title="joegarrett@earthlink.net" href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a>;<a title="pianotech@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a></div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Sent:</b> 5/12/2012 6:49:48 AM </div><div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Subject:</b> Beefing up spring rails for better touch uniformity.</div><div><br></div><font size="2"><div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><div><span>We've all seen terribly warped spring rails in old uprights. I've successfully straightened and strengthened several with very short-legged aluminum angle (1/8" thick by 1/2 " legs, I believe ) carefully cut to fit over the top of the rail, and screwed to it, with notches filed where the action brackets go.</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Euphonious Thumpe<br></div><div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"><div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class="yiv836596223hr"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Joseph Garrett <<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> Joe Goss <<a href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 11, 2012 9:58 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [pianotech] Kohler & Campbell Hammer Springs<br></font></div><br>Joe, (the other one.<G>)<br>Once I get the rail out, I don't want to ever have to do all the "dancin'<br>around" to get it back in...so, I take the rail to the wood jawed vice and<br>drill out the screw holes to ac
comodate 1/4" bolts. Then I drill out the<br>brackets for tapping to 1/4"-20 threads. I remove the felt at those points.<br>I use 1/4"-20 x 1" R.H. Screws to re-install the rail. Easy/Peasy.<G> In<br>the past, there have been several manufacturers that did this, including<br>S&S. The rest just didn't get it, imo.<G> BTW, most action brackets are<br>more than beefy enough for this modification. Also, Make Sure you have the<br>rail firmly clamped at the points of drilling out, so that it doesn't<br>split. I've only run into a couple of spring rails that were too wimpy for<br>this modification, so have at it....(gitterdun).<br>Joe<br><br><br>> [Original Message]<br>> From: Joe Goss <<a href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</a>><br>> To: <<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@ea
rthlink.net</a>>; <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br>> Date: 5/11/2012 8:27:49 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Kohler & Campbell Hammer Springs<br>><br>> Hi Joe and Paul,<br>> Having never used an offset screwdriver to remove this rail, nor even<br>owned <br>> one, even for rocker arm lost motion adjustment,<br>> I use a 1/8" screwdriver blade to remove the screws. Sometimes but<br>seldom, <br>> if one is tenacious, it is necessary to remove the felt blocks.<br>> Take care in replacing the, (I call it the whisker rail) return spring<br>rail <br>> so that you do not bend the springs out of shape.<br>> Joe please describe the screw replacement that you do.<br>> Joe Goss BSMusEd MMusEd RPT<br>> <a href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</a><br>> <a href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.mothergoosetools.com</a><br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: "Joseph Garrett" <<a href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</a>><br>> To: "pianotech" <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br>> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:09 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Kohler & Campbell Hammer Springs<br>><br>><br>> > Paul said:<br>> > "1980 Kohler & Campbell 41.5" Mahogany Console, good condition, except <br>> > that<br>> > several hammer springs have broken up close to the rail/coil, of course<br>> > causing hammers not to return. Springs do not appear rusty, but have<br>what<br>> > looks like verdigris at the coil. Might this have caused spring<br>weakness?<br>&g
t; > Not sure why they are breaking. Piano is very clean, rust- and<br>mold-free,<br>> > etc. Excellent, even tuning pin torque throughout. Anyone know anything<br>> > about this era of K&C consoles regarding hammer spring weakness? They do<br>> > not seem like very strong springs, very thin wire.<br>> ><br>> > Also would like to know if the spring rail will remove easily without <br>> > taking<br>> > other parts off the brackets?this will be my first time doing this job<br>if<br>> > they opt for it.<br>> ><br>> > They have already mentioned, even without a quote yet, that they thought<br>> > this would be a rather expensive job considering they only paid $300<br>for <br>> > the<br>> > piano. I'm thinking I'd have to bill 5 hours total for this work.<br>Thoughts<br>> > about whether it is worth doing this job on this piano? Everything else<br>> > looks in "good" condition."<br>&g
t; ><br>> > Thanks.<br>> ><br>> > Paul,<br>> > This has been covered many times before. The cause of the spring<br>failure <br>> > is<br>> > the chemicals in the felt on the rail, that is touching the springs.<br>It's <br>> > a<br>> > 4 hour job...max! I can do it in 2! AND, I would convert the rail<br>> > attachment system, as well. You will need an off-set screwdriver,<br>(ratchet<br>> > types are best), to remove the rail, initially. The quality of that<br>piano,<br>> > (without my having seen it!), is far better than the Chinese Crap that<br>is<br>> > out there today, imo. It's actually made out of real wood. What the<br>client<br>> > paid for it is of no relevence! Just fix it and they will have a good <br>> > piano<br>> > for their uses. That's my take on that<br>> > Joe<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Joe Garrett, R.P.T.<br>> > Captain of the Tool Police<br>
> > Squares R I<br>> ><br>> > <br>><br><br><br><br></div></div></div></font></blockquote></div></div><br><br></div></div></div></font></blockquote></div></div></span></body></html>