<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Duaine,<div>The aural part of the tuning test was the only thing that I failed, thereby never becoming an RPT.</div><div><br></div><div>I know that it was ALL my fault that I was unable to.</div><div><br></div><div>Lots of members offered me help, but unfortunately I was a member of an inactive chapter, so real everyday one on one help was not available.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill Bremmer even offered a one on one via Skype assistance, but that was after I dropped my membership when I turned 70.</div><div><br></div><div>I think the biggest hangup I had, was, in not being able to count beats.</div><div><br></div><div>I see now that counting wasn't as important as I thought. I should have just widenend the 4th's a smidgeon, and narrowed the 5th's and it would probably have been ok.</div><div><br></div><div>Less emphasis should be placed on counting beats, I do not think that this fear was only felt by me.</div><div><br></div><div>The part that gets me is, that once the aural part of the test is passed, there is no need to ever think of the aural part again, I can use my ETD exclusively for the rest of my life, and as long as I pay my dues, I am an RPT.</div><div><br></div><div>Just my take on it.</div><div><br></div><div>I think the PTG has been a great help over the years, I have been to close to 20 conventions and gained knowledge in every one. Met some great people.</div><div><br></div><div>I got the contract again for the local university, sent automatically. This is my 22nd year, so even without the RPT and using my ETD a school of music has been kept happy.</div><div>It is only a small music department, 40 pianos, but 100 plus tunings a year.</div><div><br></div><div>If the tunings were not satisfactory, I am sure I would have been informed by now.</div><div><br></div><div>John Ross</div><div>Windsor, Nova Scotia</div><div><br><div><div>On 26-05-2012, at 8:05 AM, Duaine Hechler wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Oh, yeah, almost forgot - therefore - there is NO need for the aural tuning test !<br><br>Unless, like other persons have noted, they CHANGE it for technique, stability, accuracy, unisons, etc !<br><br>On 05/26/2012 12:26 AM, Duaine Hechler wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Joe,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I can't believe - you are - starting this crap again.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, there are more ETD users, without aural training, than ever, and it's only growing more and more every year and aural tuners are going to become less and less every year.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">And has been proven over and over and over and over and over, ETD tunings are well enough to provide every tuning from the home to universities to symphonies, music studios and more.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">AND, to add injury to insult, the SMARTER the ETD's get, the LESS and LESS is needed for aural tuning skills.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My take on this seemingly never ending argument............<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Duaine<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 05/25/2012 11:49 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Duaine said:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"Well, IMHO, at least Cybertuner does. Because before you start tuning, you<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">sample all the A's, which no only tells how<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">far off the tuning is, but also registers the inharmonicity, etc. Plus<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">allows - 9 - standard settings for stretch as<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">well as allowing for custom settings. Plus, also, allows for setting to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">listening to certain partials."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And if you think I swallow that, I've got some good bottom land for you.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">That assumes that that takes in the whole gammit of every kind of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">inharmonicity....Which it does not! I get real tired of listening to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">supposed techs that think that Aural is the only way and/or The Machine is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the absolute way! Sheesh! If you do not know how to tune, at a reasonable<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">level, Aurally, then the machine is going to take you down the dumb path of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">trying to convince you that it's "formulae" is the BEST way to tune a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">piano. It just ain't so! I passed my RPT exam, Aurally. I use an ETD. It is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a tool,....nothing more/nothing less! It helps me to be very close.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">However, it does NOT make a piano MUSICAL! Yes, it can make a spinet as<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">good as it can be. (Don't waste your TIME trying to get it much better.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Simply spinning your wheels there. The reality is: the machine, PLUS good<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Aural Skills will help you to be a good, consistant tuner that puts out a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">MUSICAL tuning, almost every time! That's the bottom line.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">All this B.S. about "Stretch" and "Wow" tunings from the Aural Crowd and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the "Perfect" "whatever" from the ETD crowd is just a whole lot of B.S.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Bluster, imo. There are damned few techs that really have a right to lord<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">over you, their way of doing it. Those are USUALLY the head instructors at<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the National! The George Defenbaugh/Jim Colemans of our organization are a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">couple of those. The rest, just want to make their own ego prevail. (Flack<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">suit firmly zipped up! Along with a good set of ear plugs!<G>)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">IF anyone wishes to discuss different tuning philosophies and methods,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that's the way we help each other to improve our skills. That's what it's<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">all about. However, anything more/less than that is just B.S. imo.<G> BTW,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">if you have 10 tuners in a room, you will get, at least,...20 different<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">opinions. Especially, when it comes to tunings.<G><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">That's my take on it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Joe<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Joe Garrett, R.P.T.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Captain of the Tool Police<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Squares R I<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br>-- <br>Duaine Hechler<br>Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ<br>Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding<br>Reed Organ Society Member<br>Florissant, MO 63034<br>(314) 838-5587<br><a href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</a><br>www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com<br>--<br>Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>