<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div id=AOLMsgPart_1_75b886e7-9906-4e50-a305-2f65cd574848><FONT color=black size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div id=AOLMsgPart_1_2cdf4070-85a0-4984-94f6-82334d2df249><FONT color=black size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <div id=AOLMsgPart_1_bff26d8f-239c-4d82-9351-5e1a2aaaf2bf><FONT color=black size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT><br> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3px"><PRE><TT><TT>There you go again - making assumptions - do you know this for a fact ? Remember what assume means ?! </TT></PRE></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></div> <br> <br> <div style="CLEAR: both"> <div> </div> </div> <div><br> OK, so I don't know for a fact that all symphony and studio tuners use ETD exclusively. There probably are a few "tooner" who only use an ETD at symphony halls and for studios. But I do know a LOT of studio and symphony tuners (A lot more than you do), who use an ETD only as a means to get to the end result. </div> <div> </div> <div>But never mind about who uses them.    You said, "B. S. - that is way - at least, one reason - the ETD's were developed."  I'm sorry Duaine, ETD were NOT developed to take the place of aural tuners. As I said before, The only reason ETD's were developed was to HELP aural tuners.<br> <br> Then you asked the question. "so what happens when a person can't, for what ever reason, learn the aural tuning skills (enough to do a full tuning) - not tune at all." </div> <div> </div> <div>Yes, that's basically what I, and a lot of other tuners, are telling you. If you can't, for what ever reason, learn aural tuning skills, then hang it up. You're doing our profession a disservice by claiming you know how to tune a piano, when all you're doing is looking at a dial to tell when a note is in tune. Checking octaves is not tuning a piano. Tuning unisons is not tuning a piano. A lot of people who are not piano tuners can tell when an octave or a unisons is out of tune, and some of them can probably correct them, if need be.  I'm not just picking on you, btw. I would have this same conversation with any "tooner" who only uses an ETD,  and refuses to try to learn basic aural tuning skills. It's just that you're either too pig headed, or arrogant, to understand what we've been trying to tell you for the past couple of years. </div> <div> </div> <div>Wim <br> </div> <div> </div> <div><br>  </div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Duaine Hechler <dahechler@att.net><br> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org><br> Sent: Sun, May 27, 2012 7:04 pm<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] ETD tuning Vs Aural- Some Wisdom<br> <br> <div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12px" id=AOLMsgPart_0_f321e334-328a-4591-994a-7e3465234e55><PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>There you go again - making assumptions - do you know this for a fact ? Remember what assume means ?! Sent from my Linux (OpenSUSE) and Thunderbird On 05/27/2012 11:48 PM, <A href="mailto:tnrwim@aol.com">tnrwim@aol.com</A> wrote: > Duaine > > When are you going to learn that the those tuners who use an ETD to tune for symphonies and studios are using them only as a means to the end result, not as the end result. > Wim > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 27, 2012, at 6:27 PM, Duaine Hechler<<A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</A>> wrote: > >> Damn Wim, why did you have to "stir the pot" again. >> >> When you, and others like you, going to lay off us tuners that use this "tool" every single day to tune with and do a damn good job for homes, symphonies, studios, etc. >> >> Do you and others like you feel threatened that ETD's will eventually take over ? >> >> I'm getting damn sick of the bigoted bias of "your" group of persons. >> >> As I said in another email - ETD's are HERE TO STAY - so get used to it !!!!! >> >> Duaine >> >> Sent from my Linux (OpenSUSE) and Thunderbird >> >> On 05/27/2012 10:53 PM, <A href="mailto:tnrwim@aol.com">tnrwim@aol.com</A> wrote: >>> Dauine >>> >>> ETD were invented to help aural tuners, not to be used exclusively. Tuning unisons by ear is almost an after thought in the whole tuning process. In other words, although it is very important, it's basically a skill that' s expected to be known. And if you can't tune by ear, then don't pretend to be a piano tuner. There is nothing wrong with using an ETD, but it's only a tool to help you tune a piano, not a tool to do all the work. >>> >>> Wim >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >> -- >> Duaine Hechler >> Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ >> Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding >> Reed Organ Society Member >> Florissant, MO 63034 >> (314) 838-5587 >> <A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</A> >> <A href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com/" target=_blank>www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</A> >> -- >> Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years >> -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 <A href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</A> <A href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com/" target=_blank>www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</A> -- Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years </TT></PRE></div> </div> </FONT></div> </div> </FONT></div> </div> </FONT></div> </div> </font>