<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Several years ago I made a modest investment in some digital recording equipment capable of capturing nuances of piano tone. This included a digidesign mbox 2 (available for <$100 on ebay) a pair of Behrenger B1 large condenser mics ($100 each new, much less on ebay), and a pair of stands and cords. The mbox comes with ProTools recording/editing software and the whole thing is quite portable and easy to set up and use. The preamps built into the mbox are quite good for such an inexpensive device and ditto for the mics. My purpose in getting this equipment was to be able to produce soundfiles that would be capable of showing off a piano to potential buyers who might see it advertised on my website. I can say from experience though that the results are highly dependent not only on the particular equipment used, but also on the mics and their positioning as well as (of course) any post-processing done. So unless everybody is using the same equipment, etc., it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges, although I still think it could be informative. Regardless, I highly recommend that rebuilders outfit themselves similarly in order to be able to post sample files of their work on their websites. For illustration,  <a href="http://www.nhpianos.com/Rachmaninoff%20Daisies%20S&S%20A%205%2030%2012%20final.mp3">here</a> is a recording I just made on an A-III that I sold this past weekend. This is a raw recording with no editing or enhancements, made in a tiny finished basement room that is absolutely acoustically dead. <a href="http://www.nhpianos.com/Rachmaninoff%20Daisies%20S&S%20A%205%2030%2012%20with%20reverb.mp3">Here</a> is the same recording with some added reverb to simulate a better room. (Forgive the wrong notes). - Mark On 5/30/2012 11:07 AM, Dale Erwin wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:%3C8CF0C8D20DE1549-20B4-55C0E@webmail-m030.sysops.aol.com%3E" type="cite">Hi Jim   Thank you Jim for the understanding clarifying words.   I made my comments as I did to address the multitude of impedance variables that Gene was asking about and that Del clearly referenced in a post the other day. I was hoping to have a discussion on the literal weight of rib and soundboard material used and their specific weight in relationship to impedance. SO for now that'll wait.    I openly  risked  sharing some general design specifics of my own recipe & process as another soundbaord model that is being built and very successfully by our shop. To answer the question will it still be a Steinway & we covered a bunch of responses last month under the "Gen-u -whine Steinway parts" posts.   My response?... I describe the outcome as refining the best components of the original sound with increased tonal focus and clarity while eliminating the most inherent glaring weaknesses such as the 6th octave and bass crossover, increased projection while still giving adequate feedback to the pianist at the bench(very important) etc etc etc.  It was not intended to make anyone argumentative and certainly not defensive. My point was we all have a design choice to make for artisanal & financial reasons. I find if I move to far away from the robust Steinway type of sound etc. described, then some pianists won't go there.  Whatever...I think you called it right Jim. The next best thing to onsite hearings of differing designs are Mp-3 files.  These of course will have some drawbacks once the actual sound goes thru the unknown electronic filters and a host of different types of recorders etc. We must realize that the piano needs to be listed with its acoustic location and type of recorder, facts to recall before passing some kind of subjective evaluation. and...we will need to take it as it is what it is. Never the less I now think that some reasonable facsimiles can be made.  I posted about the Zoom H4-N hand held recorder that I purchased last month.  I have now used it on quite a few occasions & I can speak on this later in detail. In my opinion it does give a very fair tonal assessment. My goal quite soon is to post these recordings of various pianos we've built to my own web site for anyone to hear.This is the next best thing short of displaying at conventions/rebuilders gallerys as we can reasonably expect given the world wide nature of our P-tech audience.  I've said it for years now, we can talk talk, talk but hearing is believing. That is why I've routinely showcased our rebuilds/builds at convention for 20 plus years. Dale <div style="clear:both">Dale Erwin... RPT Mason & Hamlin/Steinway/U.S pianos Sitka Soundboard supply <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Erwinspiano.com">www.Erwinspiano.com</a> 209-577-8397 <tt><tt>     </tt></tt> </div> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message----- From: jim <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jim@grandpianosolutions.com"><jim@grandpianosolutions.com></a> To: pianotech <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></a> Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 7:19 am Subject: [pianotech] --Centering the bridge--was S&S something <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_dbecd631-d119-4378-9f71-8b04e6fd9908" style="margin: 0px;font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;font-size: 12px;color: #000;background-color: #fff;"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>David, Interesting post. David, Ron, Dale, Del, etal, At this point in the discussion that we need mp3 capability! We need a clear understanding of what aesthetic assumptions are driving each contributor's design approaches, otherwise its just an hopeless exercise in conflicting verbosity. All of what you are saying David, what Dale was saying yesterday, What Ron has been saying, and Del's voice when he chimes in, as well as mine and whoever else contributes or lurks in this discusssion, only has meaning in relation to the aesthetic tonal goals we are looking for in the tonal palette. Words are useless, unto counterproductive, after a point, in describing these aesthetic goals. For example, when I read what David has described in terms of tonal goals, which I read as more complexity and range of tonal palette which includes greater noise at the attack (I could be wrong about what David's getting at...but that's my point, we need the sound), these words have been used endlessly to describe sounds I can hear in any conservatory performance instrument; instruments whose sound and touch I have no desire to reproduce in my own shop. What venue(s) are the instruments designed for? What types of music, as my experience of "full expressive range" always means, when push comes to shove, bloody Lizst and Rachmaninoff (and then I have to leave the room). In many ways Mozart, Bach and lots of Jazz, music conceived for small venues, or popular music, very well suffocate under this targeted late romantic "full expressive range". So please, we've talked about this for years! Lets create a library of sounds to accompany your posts. We could link to the main PTG.org in all its non-functionality, but still the sounds would be there. It would be a lot of work for the contributors, but I really think the discussion can only advance with this aural info. What say? Jim Ialeggio -- Jim Ialeggio <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jim@grandpianosolutions.com">jim@grandpianosolutions.com</a> (978) 425-9026 Shirley, MA </tt></pre> </div>  </div> </blockquote> </body> </html>