<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div>I agree that it is somewhat loathsome to put modern screws (such as sheetrock, decking, etc.) in a piano; <br />but in this case, star-drive decking screws (what I meant: sorry) are likely the only things I'd be able to get in there and have go through both belly rail and 4/5 of laminated rim (pre-drilled, even) without breaking off or my messing up the slot. (Even if I found enough good, matching, vintage screws in my collection, there's not THAT much room to get my hands in. I'd also prefer decking screws because of their small diameter to strength ratio, <br />a strong consideration in ths application, where large, pre-drilled shank holes would significantly weaken the small amount of wood I have to work with on the belly rail end. And I'd neatly countersink them, of course.) But I would NOT be using the screws to pull it together: the
pipe clamps will do that. So, I was just wondering what (screws or dowels) put in at complex angles, from both sides, with the clamps still in place, would stitch it together the strongest? And if I DON'T use hide glue, which modern glue (Titebond I,II, III, Bolduc, that special Titebond Dale is selling some his of, or etc. ) might be the best alternative for also sticking to whatever residues are extant? <br /><br />Thumpe<br /><br />P.S. I also suspect that, though hide glue might stick best to hide glue in the butt-joint context, it might not be as strong at holding the dowels in place as some Titebond or epoxy. ( We've all seen dowels come loose with hide glue, haven't we, because it dries so brittle and the dowel and part dry differently?) My current inclination<br />(unless talked out of) is to go with Titebond III, and then glue in a half-dozen 1/4" oak through the T-shaped glue joint from both sides, and a variety of angles. ( I
might also have room for reinforcing blocks put in the corners of the joints, later glued and screwed to the belly rail and rim.) <br />P.P.S. There ought to be a National Screw Archive, where retiring techs can donate their buckets of great, <br />made in USA old screws, taken from salvaged-out instruments, to be divvied up among the young. </div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_">
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Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net>; <br>
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Re: [pianotech] Wood? (Straightening of.) <br>
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Sat, Jun 30, 2012 11:35:34 PM <br>
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<td valign="top" style="font:inherit;">On 6/30/2012 5:30 PM, Joseph Garrett wrote:<BR>> Thumper,<BR>> As I said before, (you must have missed it<G>), Screws do not add<BR>> strength!! They, in fact, create problems of their own.<BR><BR>Agreed, in something like a broken leg. Screws are, however, very good at pulling otherwise unclampable joints together. After the glue dries, you can replace the screws with dowels - or not.<BR><BR><BR>> Do not EVER us<BR>> those damned "sheet rock screws" in a piano!<BR><BR>Sheetrock screws are quite handy in all sorts of applications including pianos.<BR><BR><BR>> They are made for Sheet<BR>> Rock! They are hardened, which makes them a real pain in the tush to<BR>> extract should they break...which they do more often than not.<BR><BR>Then you need to learn how to use and install them. The hardness of the screws is what makes them much more difficult
to break then the typical low grade imported junk that is sold for wood screws these days. I wouldn't be without them.<BR><BR><BR>> HIDE GLUE is what the piano was put together<BR>> with.<BR><BR>Not a reasonably recent piano.<BR><BR><BR>> Use that. any other Glue will not bond to hide glue very well.<BR><BR>Including epoxy, nor will any glue at all bond with the more modern glues when the joint fails, whatever you do.<BR><BR>Ron N<BR></td>
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