<HTML><HEAD> <META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19258"></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">Thumper,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">As I said before, (you must have missed it<G>), Screws do not add strength!! They, in fact, create problems of their own. Do not EVER us those damned "sheet rock screws" in a piano! They are made for Sheet Rock! They are hardened, which makes them a real pain in the tush to extract should they break...which they do more often than not. Dowels would always be my choice. The proper type of wood dowel, configuring the grain properly and proper glue. Which brings me to the next subject, which you asked about.....HIDE GLUE is what the piano was put together with. Use that. any other Glue will not bond to hide glue very well. (Note To Terry the Epoxy King: Epoxy is NOT GLUE, even tho you use it for such.<G>) If you have gap problems, then I would suggest Epoxy, as it will fill voids. I just used it on separated back posts and soundboard ribs with major gapiosis. Since it is pretty difficult to clamp those things, that's why I used epoxy. (one of my favorite elixirs, too.<G>) When using glues and epoxies, one needs to think about Longevity, Compatability, Strength, Setup time and sometimes Flexibility.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">BTW, you really need to get a copy of Mason's Piano Parts Nomenclature! I had a real hard time figuring out what the parts were that you were describing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">Hope that helps,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">Joe</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=lclgcnp@yahoo.com href="mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com">Euphonious Thumpe</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=joegarrett@earthlink.net href="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</A>;<A title=normancantrell@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:normancantrell@sbcglobal.net">normancantrell@sbcglobal.net</A>;<A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 6/30/2012 1:53:10 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pianotech] Wood? (Straightening of.)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=top> <DIV>I have a pair of REALLY heavy steel plates (1" thick, x10" by 20" ) perfectly flat, I put things between and leave in a hot place. ((Like sun.) But never tried just "balancing" the finish. (And maybe adding some stiffness via the shellac???)) But thanks for the tip, Joe, and thanks for the extremely convenient segue into.......<BR><BR>This 1920 Chickering 5'8" Ampico I just started on has ( as I noticed as it was on its side) a slightly twisted "arm" on the treble side which seems to be the result of decades of high humidity (I guess it's damper in Georgia than in Boston) swelling the keybed laterally. So that the bottom of the the "arm" (where connects to keybed) was pushed out, and the top (in front of pinblock end) twisted inward just a little a bit. (Like maybe 1/16", max., but still enouigh to "bug" me!) I noticed the same problem on a Mathushek here.<BR>Luckily for me, I saw a bunch of big scews in the kebed bottom and took them out, and the not-glued-on keybed came right off! (Yippeee!) I could thereby also easily see that the end of the belly rail had come unglued from this arm (no dowels!) making a space wide enough to slide a machinist's rule into (with glue on it) on one end of the wedge-shaped gap. (Also caused by keybed lateral swelling, apparently --- or the rest of the piano shrinking???)<BR>My plan is to pull it all together with long pipe clamps (glue suggestions, anyone?) and while clamped run some dowels or sheetrock screws into the case sides, staggered, from both the front and back of the belly rail. ((Now easily accesible, thanks to the keybed being out. The belly rail is about 3" tall, so I have room for maybe 5 such screws or 3, 3/8" (oak?) dowels.) <BR><BR>So, please:<BR>Glue, screw and doweling suggestions requested. (And if anyone would like to make an offer on this piano, which is otherwise in very good condition and has 500 Ampico rolls, 400 of them recuts, please let me know.)<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR>Thumpe</DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <DIV id=_origMsg_> <DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt"><BR> <DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma> <HR SIZE=1> <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN> </B>Joseph Garrett <joegarrett@earthlink.net>; <BR><B><SPAN>To:</SPAN> </B>Norman Cantrell <normancantrell@sbcglobal.net>; <pianotech@ptg.org>; <BR><B><SPAN>Subject:</SPAN> </B>Re: [pianotech] Wood?<G> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN> </B>Sat, Jun 30, 2012 3:56:29 AM <BR></FONT><BR> <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=top> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">Norman,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">Do you think I mix my own Shellac?!!! Hell no! It is, whatever % is in the Spray Can of Bull's Eye Shellac!<G> My favorite elixir!<G> Solves all kinds of problems, in my shop.<G> Best thing since the invention of Peanut Butter, (Creamy of course!) Besides, this is German Wood/Piano, it'd take a large cask just to get it to have a slight buzz.<G></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">That's my take on that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2 face="MS Sans Serif">Joe</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A title=normancantrell@sbcglobal.net href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:normancantrell@sbcglobal.net">Norman Cantrell</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=joegarrett@earthlink.net href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:joegarrett@earthlink.net">joegarrett@earthlink.net</A>;<A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 6/29/2012 7:14:57 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [pianotech] Wood?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=top>Joe <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>What percentage of Alcohol are you using in the shellac?  It sounds like you have just gotten the wood so "drunk" it is pliable into whatever shape you want.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Norman Cantrell</DIV> <DIV><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 6/29/12, Joseph Garrett <I><joegarrett@earthlink.net></I></B> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Joseph Garrett <joegarrett@earthlink.net><BR>Subject: [pianotech] Wood?<G><BR>To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org><BR>Date: Friday, June 29, 2012, 7:03 PM<BR><BR> <DIV class=plainMail>Just did an interesting process on wood panels. Bottom board...warped.<BR>Insert for said bottom board...major warped. Reason: finish only on the<BR>face veneer! Yikes! This is on an 1855-70 German Upright, I just completed<BR>a full rebuild/redesign/whatever. (You'd think the Germans would know<BR>better! (sheesh) The insert had ripped all it's mounting screws out of the<BR>bottom board frame it was "mounted" on. So, I took them puppies out to the<BR>woodshed...literally! (it's where I do most of my rattle can finishing<BR>projects) Sprayed my favorite elixir, shellac, on all the bare wood<BR>surfaces. (Sevveral coats, in fact) After each coat the insert seemed to be<BR>much flatter! Hmmm? (said I<G>) Now that I have a major amount of shellac<BR>finish on the insert, the panel is almost flat, negating, for the most<BR>part, my exotic plans for slitting the panel and wedging it straight. Go<BR>figger!!<G> I'm now doing the same to the other pa nels. They are not so<BR>"major warped", but do have some issues. Hopefully, the shellac treatment<BR>will get things back in line enough to just leave well enough alone.<G><BR>Anyone else done anything like this?<BR>Regards,<BR>Joe<BR><BR><BR>Joe Garrett, R.P.T.<BR>Captain of the Tool Police<BR>Squares R I<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>