<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div> There are several old piano makes that are as well or better built than Steinways, as we all know, and here is where "marketing" and "percieved value" come into play. Steinway used some "creative tactics" to push its name to the fore (such as, according to an article I read 'way back when in American Heritage magazine, paying college girls $100 each at the 1893 World's Fair to rush the stage and rip at Paderweski's hair and clothing) and the marketing "stroke of genius" of the Artist's Program: which promised an in-tune piano at the performance of visiting pianistic dignitaries, wherever they went --- as long as they were never seen with another brand of piano in public. <br /> I bring this up because the relative value of a Steinway to other makes, as with many commodoties, is based partially, as we all know, on public perception. And, other than the fact that they are clean and new, I see little in the imports to deem them superior. (Though I was recently pretty impressed with the new "Knabes", I'll admit. ) If the public can not be convinced that it is worth the cost of restoring a non-Steinway to such a level of "perfection", many more of these superb pianos will wear out, do no more than take up space, collect dust and hold photos, and be dumped. Period. <br /> As for "student loans", that is a matter of "marketing" and "perceptin", too. We should remember that colleges are entrenched BUSINESSES selling a PRODUCT (not philanthropic or charitable organizations) hence prone, like ANY business, to promoting their products for selfish gain rather than public ( or natonal) well-being. And so it is that many young people are letting themselves be "convinced" to take out student loans for training in fields for which there are scant job openings. Add to that the unfortunate human propensity for putting-off "work" as long as possible ( sometimes via "getting an education") and you have a case of "the blind leading the blind, and both falling into the ditch". ( And taking ALL OF US with them, who are not prepared!)<br /> The world is indeed changing, and my advice: make yourself useful to others whom you LIKE, but WITHOUT concern for getting paid, and you'll survive --- and most happily! <br /><br />Thumpe</div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_"> <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt"> <br /> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"> <hr size="1"> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span> </b> Paul Williams <pwilliams4@unl.edu>; <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold:">To:</span> </b> pianotech@ptg.org <pianotech@ptg.org>; <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold:">Subject:</span> </b> Re: [pianotech] NY times article on Pianos <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span> </b> Mon, Jul 30, 2012 9:49:55 PM <br> </font> <br> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"> <div>Yeah, most of them are just…old.  I hope some folks still want to rebuild SOME of these beauties for what the were…kind of like rebuilding a Model T or A, or even a 40 Ford.  They're fantastic for what they WERE, but certainly not for going 70mph down the freeway, or even an every day to work car. Nor should that be the restoration to perfect thing happen. Some are worth being drivers again, and some aren't. On the other hand, I just put a new soundboard, bridges, etc and etc into a both 1911 Model A (Steinway) and a 1926 Model L; also a whole new keyset and action stack on a '32 L.  I guess you could call them hot rods, but built to old school standards. They're now daily "drivers" here at school. That's all they'll ever be, never some show piano on Mechem's Auctions for Muscle Cars.   </div> <div><br> </div> <div>It's where to draw a line of rehab, eh?  Where is that?  An old Steinway (Ferarri) is most of the time worth the effort, but is a '56 DeSoto or 72 Vallient (like any medium priced piano in the day) worth it?  Who knows?  The beauty lies in the eyes…</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div>What about the cheaper new things(cars/pianos/whatever) out there…10 years down the road, they won't be fit to go down the freeway either.  Just sayin ;>)  Disposable cars are the norm now, too. Nobody in their right mind is going to rebuild an '89 Dodge Colt!! LOL….DAMHIK!!!  But, hey, if you find a '69 camaro in the back of some old farmer's barn, BUY IT!  I hope you get my drift.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>I didn't look at Larrys new book, but I guess I should have.  </div> <div><br> </div> <div>This is a great discussion folks!</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Paul</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"> <div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt;"> <span style="font-weight:bold;">From: </span>Delwin D Fandrich <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:del@fandrichpiano.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">del@fandrichpiano.com</a>><br> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Reply-To: </span>"<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Date: </span>Monday, July 30, 2012 4:22 PM<br> <span style="font-weight:bold;">To: </span>"<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject: </span>Re: [pianotech] NY times article on Pianos<br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div> <style></style> <div lang="EN-US"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">Well I expect Larry didn’t like having his comment taken some out of context either. </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">  </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">If you had looked in the issue of <b><i>Piano Buyer</i></b> (Spring, 2012) that Larry was selling at the convention you’d have found the 14-page article on <i>Upright Cabinet Styles in American Piano Manufacturing</i>, 1880 – 1930 by Martha Taylor (Immortal Piano, Portland, Oregon). He has also placed feature articles in Piano Buyer about grand piano rebuilding in earlier issues. He tries, as much as possible, to present both perspectives.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">  </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">But the bottom line is all this is that this market decision is not being made by Larry Fine, myself (full disclosure—I’m the mostly non-paid Technical Consultant for <b><i>Piano Buyer</i></b>) or by any of us on Pianotech. It’s being made out there in the marketplace. And, yes, I’m disappointed when an owner of a beautiful old upright or grand decides to dump it and go for a shiny new something or other. But the market reality is that fewer and fewer of those old things can be rebuilt for the cost of a new piano of equal or better performance. This is especially true with grands. It’s tough to completely and competently rebuild and refinish a small grand piano for the cost of a fairly nice new one. </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">  </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">One can hope that the best of the old ones can be preserved—I to cringe when I see the picture of that old Knabe being dumped—but the truth is that a good many of those old pianos are just that; old. Except for their size they don’t have much else going for them. </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">  </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">ddf</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">  </span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">Delwin D Fandrich</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">Piano Design & Fabrication</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">6939 Foothill Court SW, </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">Olympia, Washington 98512 USA</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">Phone  360.515.0119 — Cell  360.388.6525</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423;"><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:del@fandrichpiano.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return"><span style="color:blue;">del@fandrichpiano.com </span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(99, 36, 35);font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">— </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423;"><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ddfandrich@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return"><span style="color:blue;">ddfandrich@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">  </span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;"> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Williams<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 30, 2012 7:07 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] NY times article on Pianos</span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;">  </p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I didn't appreciate Larry Fine's quote….and to think he was selling his stuff at the PTG Conference!</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">  </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Paul</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">  </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">  </span></p> </div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">David Love <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a>><br> <b>Reply-To: </b>"<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> <b>Date: </b>Monday, July 30, 2012 8:49 AM<br> <b>To: </b>"<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> <b>Subject: </b>[pianotech] NY times article on Pianos</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">  </span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">FYI</span><span style="color:black;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="color:black;"></span></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">David Love</span><span style="color:black;"></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com">www.davidlovepianos.com</a></span><span style="color:black;"></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></p> <div> <div> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;"> <span style="color:black;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/arts/music/for-more-pianos-last-note-is-thud-in-the-dump.html?pagewanted=1&hpw">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/arts/music/for-more-pianos-last-note-is-thud-in-the-dump.html?pagewanted=1&hpw</a></span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </span> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </div> </div>