<font color='navy' size='2' face='Comic Sans MS, sans-serif'><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> I had to know, ya know?...so I </font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">went</font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> to the shop and performed my own first test based on the parameters below in my previous e-mail.  </font> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">  The initial action ratio reading using the quick Erwin action ratio block/tester shows a 5.5 action ratio on a Stwy B action from the  last decade. The action is in good shape and regulated.  6 mm of key dip accounted for 33 mm of hammer rise.</font> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">  In the next test to insure only 10 mm of dip I removed the punchings and replaced it with hard card board one. So no punching compression at all. Ok Jason?</font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">  I used digital calipers to measure dip as accurately as possible at 10 mm.</font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> the key was depressed  10 mm and measured;... total hammer rise. Tada !....55 mm  </font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">  So the action ratio is 5.5.</font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> So this is only one check &  I was more microscopic than usual. So for my money, I'll stick with the quick and simple method of using the action ratio tester first and then  measuring of the leverage. The beauty of crunching the numbers is that the leverage changes become more specific. Usually its the knuckle placement, capstan location or changing both in order to achieve a specific reasonable action ratio. Beyond that its a new key set with a change in leverage.</font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">Try this yourself</font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">Dale</font></div> <div><br> <div style="color: navy; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; clear: both; "><font size="1" color="royalblue"><b><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif"><font color="black"><font color="mediumblue" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Dale Erwin R.P.T.<br> <font color="green">Erwin's Piano Restoration Inc.</font><br> </font></font></font></b></font><font color="darkgreen"><span style="font-style: italic;"><b><font size="1"><font size="1" color="black"><font color="blueviolet"><font color="black"> <font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Mason & Hamlin</font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">/Steinway/</font><font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">U.S. pianos</font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><br> </font></font></font></font><font size="1" color="cornflowerblue" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">www.Erwinspiano.com</font><font size="1"><br> </font><font size="1" color="crimson" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Phone: 209-577-8397</font><br> <font color="darkgreen"></font></font></b></span></font><tt><tt><font color="darkgreen"><br> <br> </font></tt></tt></div> <div style="color: black; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt; "> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_a1f80899-f8ab-48b2-85ff-f69923865e17"> <div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class="gmail_quote"> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Dale Erwin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:erwinspiano@aol.com">erwinspiano@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <font color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"> Cy</font></font> <div><font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"> Bering a simpleton myself, I agree.</font></font></div> <div><font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"> If a few of us take a few measurements and compare the data. we'll find out if"</font></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica">Does this average out the "arc" effects?</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,128);font-family:'Comic Sans MS',sans-serif;font-size:small"> For accuracy lets all do it this way. Use a metric ruler to set the dip at the front of the key. remvoe drop screw and let-off button(or crank it out of the way)Then measure the hammer rise as accurately as possible. </span></div> <div> <div><font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"> All actions are subject the accelerating action phenomena to changing ratios thru the complete range of motion as the capstans is moving further from the wip center pin and the increasing leverage </font></font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">efficiency in the wip. </font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"> FWIW...I've had brainiacs more smarter than me compute things to the small decimal points and say 6 mm is enough of a sample. Is it? Dunno for sure but seems to work. </font> <div class="im"> <br> <br> <div style="color:navy;font-family:'Comic Sans MS',sans-serif;font-size:10pt;clear:both"><font size="1" color="royalblue"><b><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif"><font color="black"><font color="mediumblue" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Dale Erwin R.P.T.<br> <font color="green">Erwin's Piano Restoration Inc.</font><br> </font></font></font></b></font><font color="darkgreen"><span style="font-style:italic"><b><font size="1"><font color="darkgreen"></font></font></b></span></font><tt><tt><font color="darkgreen"></font></tt></tt><br> </div> </div> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica"><font size="1">From: Cy Shuster <<a href="mailto:cy@shusterpiano.com">cy@shusterpiano.com</a>><br> To: pianotech <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2012 5:24 pm<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Action ration measuring<br> </font> <div> <div class="h5"><br> <div style="font-size:10pt"> <div>Simpler is better -- I like it!</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Is this significantly different from using your existing tool, Dale, where you just measure the first part of key travel and hammer rise?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Does this average out the "arc" effects?</div> <div><br> </div> <div>--Cy--</div> <br> <div> <span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Verdana;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"> <div>Cy Shuster, RPT</div> <div>Albuquerque, NM</div> <div><br> </div> <div><a target="_blank" href="http://www.shusterpiano.com">www.shusterpiano.com</a></div> <div><a target="_blank" href="http://www.facebook.com/shusterpiano">www.facebook.com/shusterpiano</a></div> </span> </div> <br> <div> <div>On Sep 22, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Dale Erwin <<a href="mailto:erwinspiano@aol.com">erwinspiano@aol.com</a>> wrote:</div> <br> <blockquote type="cite"><font color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"> <div style="color:navy;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Comic Sans MS',sans-serif;clear:both"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">From: Jim Ialeggio <<a href="mailto:jim@grandpianosolutions.com">jim@grandpianosolutions.com</a>></span></div> <div><br> <br> <div style="margin:0px"> <pre style="font-size:9pt"><tt><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Ron said: <It always annoyed me that the cumulative leverage of the presumed moment arms matched so poorly with Dale's 6mm in/out direct measurement. Something's wrong, and I'll take direct first. </font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Jim wrote</font><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> My take...the position of half stroke should be determined by 1st determining the full arc the hammer would travel, driven by the key at its full dip, with the hammer unimpeded by the letoff button. Full hammer travel in this scenario is of course more than blow(-)letoff, but it exceeds blow as well.</font></tt></pre><pre><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt"><font color="#dc143c"> </font><font color="#0000ff">Jim.</font></span></font></pre><pre><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt"><font color="#0000ff">I like the way you think</font></span></font></pre> <pre><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt"> Take the let-off button off and toss out the drop screw too. Now nothing is in the way to impede hammer rrise. </span></font></font><font color="#0000ff"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Now</span></font></font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"><span style="font-size:9pt"> set a very </span><span style="font-size:12px">accurate</span><span style="font-size:9pt"> 10 mm key dip, (however one does that) , then set a modest weight on the key to</span></font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"><span style="font-size:9pt"> depress it fully, then</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-size:9pt;font-family:'Comic Sans MS',sans-serif"> simply measure the total hammers rise. Likely it will be 55 mm to 65mm. Divide by 10 equals a totally accurate direct measurement figure</span><span style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:'Comic Sans MS',sans-serif"> for action ratio.</span></pre> <pre><span style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:'Comic Sans MS',sans-serif">Dale</span></pre><pre><b style="color:rgb(65,105,225);font-family:'Comic Sans MS',sans-serif;font-size:x-small;white-space:normal"><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif"><font><font color="mediumblue" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Dale Erwin R.P.T.<br> <font color="green">Erwin's Piano Restoration Inc.</font></font></font></font></b> </pre><pre><tt><span style="font-size:9pt"> Jim Ialeggio -- Jim Ialeggio </span><a href="mailto:jim@grandpianosolutions.com" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,sans-serif">jim@grandpianosolutions.com</a><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif" style="font-size:9pt"> <a value="+19784259026">978 425-9026</a> Shirley Center, MA </font></tt></pre> </div> </div> </font></blockquote></div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </font></blockquote></div> <br> <br clear="all"> <div><br> </div> </div> </div>  </div> </div> </div> </font>