<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div></div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_"> <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt"> <br /> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"> <hr size="1"> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span> </b> Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>; <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold:">To:</span> </b> Prof. Euphonious Thump <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>; <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold:">Subject:</span> </b> Re: [pianotech] who pays? P.S. <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span> </b> Sun, Oct 21, 2012 3:04:36 PM <br> </font> <br> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><div>On second thought: I truly WOULD NOT want S&S to adopt the improvements researched and developed by the dedicated and careful craftsmen experts on this list, because, after seeing "The Making of L-101", I am convinced that only a small percentage of its workforce would be interested in executing them properly. (So its better that only those who developed them benefit, and "May the best piano win!")<br /><br />Thumpe</div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_"> <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,;"> <br /> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"> <hr size="1"> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span> </b> Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>; <br> <b> <span style="">To:</span> </b> <pianotech@ptg.org>; <br> <b> <span style="">Subject:</span> </b> Re: [pianotech] who pays? P.S. <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span> </b> Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:58:01 PM <br> </font> <br> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><div>Just a little bit more on why I'm sore at Steinway:<br /><br /> For years I tended all the pianos at the University of Georgia that were not in the actual School of Music. <br />(At the student center, dorms, cafeterias, and etc..) Then, the muscular pianist Yefim Bronfman ("Bronfman the Brontosaur") was brought in to inaugurate the new "B" that the University's swank conference center and hotel ("The Georgia Center") had purchased for its auditorium. Having tuned and played it, and found that its action was HORRIFICALLY heavy and uneven, I warned the management that he would not be pleased! And BEGGED them to let me do something about it!!! (Even something as little as lubricating the keypins.) <br /> But they, fully infected with the myths and marketing hype that so commonly results in a glassy-eyed, numb, "Steinwayitis", were impossible to convince that the piano was anything but perfect, as-is.*<br /> As Mr. Bronfman struggled through compositions that he could probably, on a decent instrument, play while sleeping (rattling off "clunker" after "clunker" -- DOZENS of them!) a steady stream of profanities became ever more audible from the stage. And then, red faced (as the audience quietly whispered to itself that "poor Mr. B" is obviously having an "off day") he bowed and descended. I felt so badly for him that I ran up and apologized for the obstinacy of the management, and the condition of the piano; whereupon even MORE colorful language issued from his lips! (Much more.) And then the Georgia Center, deeming me an "upstart" and "troublemaker", soon started using someone else.......<br /> For this: for letting a piano that is so horribly maladjusted and/or executed be sold, and for infecting the populace with the LIE that Steinways are worshipable entities (and for costing me my job) I hold Steinway accountable. Pianos should be valued according to their actual merits: not some manufactured "worth", as is done with "Beanie Babies", "Cabbage Patch Dolls", Franklin Mint "collectibles", and many examples of vulgar "Modern Art". (Imagine what we could get for a restored instrument, if our work was valued at the same rate-per-effort as is that of some of the drug-addled "artistes" who fling paint at canvas and reap $MILLIONS$!)<br /><br /> No, I don't put ANY Steinway in the same category as such items of questionable worth. But I DO consider the company guilty of the same type of marketing hype! A conduct which is DOUBLY unbecoming, as it issues from a firm which PAINTS itself as the paragon of dignity and refinement! (If you want to see "snob appeal" at its most nauseating, peruse a copy of the "Steinway Magazine". Its even worse than "Town and Country", and blatantly markets pianos more as "investments", than as musical instruments - in my humble opinion, of course.)<br /><br /> Bluntly: if Steinway and Sons REALLY cared about building great pianos, it would TAKE the suggestions for improvements mentioned on this list (free research and development from the finest, most dedicated craftsmen on Earth!) and incorporate them into its manufacturing practices. SO WHAT if that would result in a slightly <br />"new sound" for Steinway? It would ALSO result in MORE SALES, and a vastly improved reputation!<br /> So this it should do: NOT demean those dedicating their precious lives to performing the research and development. (And maybe even thank and cite the developers, and then I'm sure we'd all get along just fine!)<br /><br /> 'Nuff said. Subject closed (for me)! I have better things to do.<br /><br />Thumpe<br /><br />*A pretty funny Zombie-movie short could be developed on this theme!</div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_"> <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,;"> <br /> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"> <hr size="1"> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span> </b> Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>; <br> <b> <span style="">To:</span> </b> <pianotech@ptg.org>; <br> <b> <span style="">Subject:</span> </b> Re: [pianotech] who pays? <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span> </b> Sat, Oct 20, 2012 3:03:12 PM <br> </font> <br> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><div> Yes, Steinway has a right to defend its reputation against being misrepresented by the "product" of the many slipshod rebuilders out there. But much of the propaganda in that website/brochure seems viciously aimed at the very CAREFUL rebuilders who've dedicated themselves to remedying what they perceive as insufficiencies in the mass-produced, Steinway design. (Such as soundboards that seem to "implode" if not kept in extremely carefully climate-controlled surroundings, resulting in pianos with a "dead" tone --- all new factory Steinways should come with a warning about this!) And so, when S&S starts defaming the CAREFUL rebuilders -- some of whom may well be more interested in quality craftsmanship than the workers at the factory,* that is when it is "playing dirty", and its propaganda becomes a mere disingenuous blather.<br /> Steinway mought** walk a bit more humbly: lest some of the experts on this list get hold of one of its "stock" pianos, place it in a studio adjacent to a modified version, and videotape a "Double-Blind" test that records several fine pianists and their stated preferences. (Surely, though, no "Steinway Artistes" would participate.) ***<br /> The irony in all this, of course, is that Steinway ADMITS to improvements over time ( even brags of them in the aforementioned piece) yet seems unwilling to adopt any measures developed beyond its walls! But don't expect that to change any time soon: it snubbed the other manufacturers at the 1893 World's Fair, and again when it boycotted the 1917 American Steel and Wire convocation of makers; and I suspect on many other occasions when it decided that it was too "classy" to "rub elbows" with the "riff-raff". (Or congenially share any methods.)<br /> So what's MY "beef" with Steinway? Besides the fact that I don't prefer their tone (which is moot) it's a lifetime of looking into customers' hypnotized, "goo-goo-eyes", who will NOT consider any other piano fit for purchase or rebuild. Even if the other piano is as-well-or-better made! (A hypnotization that Steinway can justly and logically be partially held accountable for.)<br /><br />Thumpe<br /><br />* "The Making of L-101" drove the final nail into the coffin of any residual desire to own a Steinway. And the fact that Steinway WANTS people to see this film is also rather creepily disturbing, IMHO.<br />** A contraction of the "Southernism" warning of "might ought". (Ironically, around here, while most words GAIN syllables during speech, a few in fact lose them.) <br />*** Actually, if a test like this were set up, and "Steinway Artistes" INVITED to play, some very valuable marketing data might be gleaned from simply recording the percentage who agreed to participate! (I suspect it would be zero.)</div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_"> <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,;"> <br /> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"> <hr size="1"> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span> </b> tnrwim@aol.com <tnrwim@aol.com>; <br> <b> <span style="">To:</span> </b> <pianotech@ptg.org>; <br> <b> <span style="">Subject:</span> </b> Re: [pianotech] who pays? <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span> </b> Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:35:12 AM <br> </font> <br> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'> <div>I've read a lot of comments on this. For the most part, I agree with what you, and Ron, and others, had said. But, where I think Steinway is coming from with "bashing" the private rebuilders, is not the dozen or so rebuilders around the country that are doing top notch work. (I won't mention them, because I would leave some out, and I don't know all of them), but the hundreds of "rebuilders" who do less than exemplary work. It's those rebuilders that Steinway is warning the public about. </div> <div> </div> <div>Someone mentioned that Renner was not listed as a parts maker to avoid. Obviously that's because Renner supplies parts to their instruments, and if they mentioned them as someone who does not make acceptable parts, it would certainly not look good for them. </div> <div> </div> <div>Another part of that promotional stuff I have trouble accepting is the value of their pianos after a certain number of years. I've done some research on this, and found that Steinway pianos don't depreciate, or appreciate, any more than any other brand of piano. The actual prices might be different, but it's the same percentage. Take a  Kimball console, that sold new in 1960 for about $350, is worth about three times as much now, if it's in good condition. A Steinway S that sold new in 1960 for $2000, is probably worth $6000 today. </div> <div> </div> <div>The idea that their instruments appreciate in value is very misleading. I had a customer ask me to appraise his 5 year old S, and was very surprised to find out that the value of that instrument was about 75% of what he paid for it. He was assured by the salesman that his $25,000 investment in the new S would be worth $30,000 in 5 years, and that's the only reason he bought it. Of course the customer was mad at me for giving him the bad news. </div> <div> </div> <div>Wim</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div style="color:black;font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br> From: David Love <davidlovepianos@comcast.net><br> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org><br> Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2012 11:18 am<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] who pays?<br> <br> <div style="margin:0px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="AOLMsgPart_0_2314664b-afec-4527-9d0c-9ef758f2d16c"> <pre style="font-size:9pt;"><tt>It's a little out of context. The question is the criticism of Steinway for marketing themselves the best way they know how using a strategy that they think will be most effective. I personally think that their "Stein-was" strategy is largely driven by the heavily vocal design change Steinway can do no right group. Steinway clearly has a market share in rebuilding their pianos to protect--i.e., they make money there. Their greatest (or you can also argue weakest) asset is that the pianos that come out of their facility will be faithful to the current Steinway designs. I've seen several factory rebuilds that were fine and some that weren't. The same can be said of independent rebuilders. We all pick and choose the kind of promotional angle we think will serve us the best whether it's that we employ design changes seeking improvement or that we remain faithful to the original concept. That Steinway promotes themselves as the best avenue to rebuild vintage Steinway pianos should come as no surprise. If they were Nossaman, Erwin or Love pianos, if we are not being disingenuous, we would be making the same claim and probably by somewhat bothered by people making design changes. David Love <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: <a rel="nofollow">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a rel="nofollow">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ron Nossaman Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 11:58 AM To: <a rel="nofollow">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Subject: Re: [pianotech] who pays? On 10/19/2012 1:03 PM, David Love wrote: > Would > you want someone stretching strings over every rebuild/redesign that > you've done and drawing conclusions about the rest of your work based > on that one piano? That was exactly the situation with all of us who had a piano at that showcase. The difference is that most of the people looking at our pianos had only ever seen that one example of our work, where a lot more of us have seen more than one example of the Steinway basement rebuild. Ron N </tt></pre> </div> </div> </font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </div> </div>