<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'> <div>If I had all the business I could handle, and was booked solid three of four weeks out, I might consider asking more. But one thing I've learned the first four years I lived here, is that I am not worth as much as I think I am, and that if I want to eat and pay the bills, I have to charge what the public is willing to pay. In other words, I would rather charge $100 per hour, and throw in a few extras, and actually get it, than ask for $150 per hour, and charge extra for trips, etc, and sit at home. Guess which I would do?</div> <div> </div> <div>Wim </div> <div> </div> <div></div> <div style="color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Jerry Groot <tunerboy3@comcast.net><br> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org><br> Sent: Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:24 pm<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] elbows<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_0da1493a-c199-4662-9af7-beeba3e3b65d"> <div class="WordSection1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 11pt;">Plus, like many businesses other than ours does, it should include a service call to get to the home “twice.”  Once to remove the action, once to return it.  Plus, the time it takes to remove and install it, removing keys etc., if that is required.    I agree with Terry.  $500 for all of that is to inexpensive.  Spinet or not.  </span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Wingdings; font-size: 11pt;">J</span><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 11pt;"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 11pt;">Jer</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div> <div> <div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:tnrwim@aol.com">tnrwim@aol.com</a><br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:33 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] elbows</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">Terry.   </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">It only takes me about 5 hours to do the work. It was at least 6 years ago since I did this. But even if I had to do it today, I would probably charge the same. Don't forget, that does not include tuning</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">Wim</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="MsoNormal"><br> On Nov 22, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Terry Farrell <<a href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com</a>> wrote:</div> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">$500? Would you (or anyone else) really remove a spinet action and take it back to your shop, remove all the keys and vacuum, replace a full set of elbows (wood ones at that), tighten all action screws, file/shape hammers, make a second trip to the home of the piano, install spinet action, re-install keys and do a complete action regulation?  </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">WOW, that's a deal! For the piano owner.</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">That's kookey.</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">If I were to do that scope of work, I'd easily double that fee (mid-west prices). And most any spinet owner would be ill-advised to put that much $$ into their little spinet.</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">Terry Farrell</div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">On Nov 22, 2012, at 4:15 PM, John Ross wrote:</div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><br> <br> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">Wim,</div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">I wonder if $500 invested in an old spinet makes economic sense?</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">I feel that making the piano operable for the least money is in the best interests of the customer.</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">John Ross</div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">Windsor, Nova Scotia</div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal">On 2012-11-22, at 3:31 PM, <a href="mailto:tnrwim@aol.com">tnrwim@aol.com</a> wrote:</div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><br> <br> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">I know a lot of you replace the old plastic elbows with the new snap ons. And, like Laura, even do this with the action in the piano. In regard to the latter, because of my girth, I find it very uncomfortable doing anything on a drop action, much less replacing all the elbows. </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">As far as the snap ons, although they are much better quality plastic than the old type, they are still plastic. Somehow I just can't justify replacing plastic with plastic. So put on wood elbows. But by putting on wood elbows, I do more than just replace those parts. </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">I remove the action. By doing that I also have to remove the keys. When those are removed, it also gives me a chance to vacuum under the keys, and I often vacuum the bottom of the piano. I take the action home, and do all the work on my bench, which is well lit, and I have all my tools and supplies at hand. </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">Before I install all the elbows, i first tighten all the screws and file the hammers. The procedure for replacing the elbows is as follows. I remove as many of the old plastic elbows from the wippens with needle nose pliers. I then remove all the center pins. For putting on the wood elbows, I put the elbow in a vise, chuck the wire in a drill, and, zip, screw it on.  If the button is too high, I turn it down a little. After all the elbows are on the lifter wires, I install the elbows back on the wips.</span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">With the new elbows in place, I put the action back in the piano*, install the keys and regulate.  *Even if you strap the wires to the action, to prevent the sticker wires from getting jammed between the balance rail pins, I drape newspapers of the key bed. Lay the stickers on the newspaper, and the action will slip right in. </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">As I said, replacing elbows is more then just replacing elbows. It's a complete action and piano cleaning and regulation job, for which I charge around $500, plus tuning. And most of the time, the piano also requires a pitch raise.  When you're done, the piano not only sounds great, but plays great, too. And the customer will be very happy with the end result. </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">Wim</span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div> </div> </div> <div> <div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Marshall Gisondi <<a href="mailto:pianotune05@hotmail.com">pianotune05@hotmail.com</a>><br> To: pianotech <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> Sent: Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:28 am<br> Subject: [pianotech] elbows</span></div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_e692c097-1c0c-4cb7-b53e-466fd1f56d0c"> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: ;">HI Everyone,</span><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"><br> </span><span style="font-family: ;">Wnen it comes to elbows, I've never heard of using a heat source.  I just take plyers and crunch crunch crunch :-)  At the school we were taought to take a vice grip and place it on the lifter wire on the point where the original elbow was so we knew how far to screw on the replacement plastic ones if we used them.  I have and they do well.  I know some believe in the wood ones which are harder to install.  Like one tech told me out here, the plastic replacemetns will out live me and the customer.   Have any of you done an elbow job in the customers home without taking the action out?</span><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"><br> </span><span style="font-family: ;">Marshall</span><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"><br> </span><span style="font-family: ;">215-510-9400</span><span style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt;"></span></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote></div> </div>  </div> </font>