<font color='navy' size='2' face='Comic Sans MS, sans-serif'><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">Hi </font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Roger</font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">, all.</font> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> Thanks for psoting this.</font></div> <div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> With all sincerity and without stepping on your comfort zone Roger, I'd like to offer another experience. My comments interspersed below<br> </font> <div><b style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif; font-size: x-small; color: rgb(65, 105, 225);"><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif"><font color="black"><font color="mediumblue" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Dale Erwin R.P.T.</font></font></font></b><br> <div style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; clear: both;"><font color="darkgreen" style="color: navy;"><span style="font-style: italic;"><b><font size="1"><br> </font></b></span></font><font color="#006400">Roger wrote</font></div> <div><br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_990859f6-486a-49c7-a02a-9de5b844781e"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Chuck,</div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">I’m stepping out of my comfort zone to respond to your post – a post that may mislead new technicians who may be inclined to venture down the paths of restoring 100 year old pianos. By simply filling the cracks with shims and performing a static gluing of the panels to the ribs, your chances of restoring a 100 year old soundboard to it’s original impedance character are little to none.Your comment about a 1000% more “vibrant” is misleading.</div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><br> </div> <div><i><b><font face="Arial" size="2">Certainly results can vary, and you have a valid concern to be certain sure but I've </font><font face="Arial">restored</font><font face="Arial" size="2"> several hundred uprights in 40 years. Some were fantastic doing only what Chuck suggests and others only fair. I really think that upright boards are more driven by the mass and stiffness of the materials alone unaided by any notion of much if any mass and stiffness provided by crown and downbearing. </font></b></i></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><br> </div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">  The stopgap repair certainly restored unity to the soundboard, but after that, a piano with that much deterioration would have little to no tension remaining within its composite structure. It defies the physics within the soundboard to believe that a massive gluing of that nature restores any rib-to-panel tension; tension that is necessary to the characteristics we associate with good piano tone.</div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </div> <div><i><b><font face="Arial" size="2">I think I would </font><font face="Arial">substitute</font><font face="Arial" size="2"> your word tension perhaps for integrity. A soundboard doesn't need tension as I understand it, it </font></b></i><i><b><font face="Arial" size="2">needs compression</font></b></i><i><b><font face="Arial" size="2">.  I've restored uprights , repairing a few cracks with no crown, regluing ribs to restore panel integrity etc. This done in conjunction with removing the old finish and applying an epoxy finish to the soundboard which has improved the sound dramatically. Of course new bridge caps/strings also helps enormously as does a modest amount of pressure against the them and the board. Everything can help if the design is adequate to begin with.</font></b></i></div> <div><br> </div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">When I was young and felt I knew everything about the make-up of the piano I ventured into a massive static soundboard re-gluing job where every rib along 75% of its length was detached from the panels. The end result was a disaster. It was like listening to a ball </font><font face="Arial">peen</font><font face="Arial" size="2"> hammer striking against a cast iron frying pan – all attack and no decay.</font></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> </div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2">I think my procedure varied  in one important dynamic way from what you had attempted.</font></i></b></div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2"> I executed a similar procedure on old no named family upright baked in the hot summer sun in a mini </font><font face="Arial">warehouse</font><font face="Arial" size="2"> here for 10 years. The board had 3 full length cracks. I was able to open the glue joints on all the ribs from case edge to case edge.</font></i></b></div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2">  After drying the board these cracks allowed the board to be expanded, pushed toward the front of the piano as wedges were driven between the back posts and the ribs while being reglued and screwed to the ribs. Shims applied and The piano regained more belly than many new boards. It sounds remarkable. I was frankly proud of the repair and the results.</font></i></b></div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2">Granted this was a one time triumph but the principles are the same. Some force crowning and panel drying and the ability to expand the panel.</font></i></b></div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2"> As a side note I have observed that the number of ribs on the old monsters seems to be a determining factor when listening to and liking the sound of any old upright. For me,10 ribs is not usually not enough support or mass to provide a tone I appreciate or want to rebuild. 11 is better and 12 is great. Taller ribs are always a better sounding board to my ear. Ribs less tall and wider are not generally a good result. Sustain is my number one predictor (is that a word) of soundboard health and rebuild viability.</font></i></b></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><br> </div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"> I would urge technicians to seriously weigh the restoration investment to the end result before engaging in such a massive reconditioning. A good new upright piano can be had for $6,000 to $7,000, and it would have a new bridge, a new pinblock with 2/0 tuning pins, and an entirely new action, plus much more. Is it worth our reputation to encourage our clients to invest in a 100 year old piano with that level of restoration liability?</div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></i></b></div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2">This point is well taken Roger. Careful </font><font face="Arial">assessments</font><font face="Arial" size="2"> need to be made and options considered.</font></i></b></div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="2"> However uprights on the west coast have often survived in </font><font face="Arial">unbelievably</font><font face="Arial" size="2"> good original conditions and are more than worthy of restoring with outcomes that in my opinion far surpass new pianos both in tone, touch and beauty. </font></i></b></div> <div><b><i><font face="Arial" size="3">  These gorgeous Victorian cases will <u>NEVER , NEVER </u>be made again and many should be preserved even  though it can be expensive.</font></i></b></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><b><i>I've got some rebuilt uprights out that are tonally superior to anything new. IMHO.</i></b></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><i>Merry Christmas</i></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><i>Dale</i></div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><br> </div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Roger Gable</div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri; font-size: small; font-style: normal; display: inline; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: initial;"> <div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma"> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5"> <div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="behmpiano@gmail.com" href="mailto:behmpiano@gmail.com">Chuck Behm</a> </div> <div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:30 AM</div> <div><b>To:</b> <a title="pianotech@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> </div> <div><b>Subject:</b> [pianotech] Soundboard repair</div> </div> </div> <div> </div> </div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri; font-size: small; font-style: normal; display: inline; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: initial;">Hello again - For those of you who entertain yourselves upon occasion with refurbishing and old upright with a loose and cracked soundboard, I've come up with a quick and easy method of regluing the ribs to the soundboard before shimming that really seems to do the trick. I don't believe I've ever seen it done this way before (that doesn't mean it hasn't been done before - I just haven't seen it done [or don't remember seeing it done, which at my age may be a more accurate way to put it]). <div> </div> <div>Anyway, <a target="_blank" href="http://www.pianopromoproductions.com/resources/Schiller%202%20hi%20res.pdf">click here</a> (I hope the link works) for a photo set that highlights the process. The soundboard of the piano in the photos is a 1000% more vibrant now than it was before the procedure was done.  Chuck</div> </div> </div> </div> </div>  </div> </div> </div> </font>