<div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1ab81183-d6a2-4e5f-811a-4d74596fcd8b" style="color: black; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">   As you kow I respect your experience and learn from it.   I think if you hang enough of these hammers, or any hammer for that matter the voicing process will vary depending on the size, Soundboard type and scale differentials. </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1ab81183-d6a2-4e5f-811a-4d74596fcd8b">For example. We just finished two Bs simultaneously. The action for one was interchangeable with the other and it made a great A B comparison. One B was an older design with a 14 rib board with an added straight cut-off and the other was a 15 ribbed tear drop shaped RC&S board. The action was fitted with 14 lb Weickert felt hammers. No juice no needling.</div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1ab81183-d6a2-4e5f-811a-4d74596fcd8b"> The hammers needed nothing in either piano. It was Nice and clear, powerful with lots of tone color. This has happened often But on other pianos I've added lacquer to these hammers.</div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1ab81183-d6a2-4e5f-811a-4d74596fcd8b">So I'm being transparent here just to confirm my opening statement. I'm not talking about strong solutions of lac. ie 10 or 12 to 1 or usually something rather minuscule compared to really SOft hammers sucha s Stwy hammers have been in the past.</div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1ab81183-d6a2-4e5f-811a-4d74596fcd8b">I've installe Wurzen AA in A Yam. G-2 and had to needle it back severely. It was easy and after that the tone is very musical and the voicing stable</div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1ab81183-d6a2-4e5f-811a-4d74596fcd8b"> </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_1ab81183-d6a2-4e5f-811a-4d74596fcd8b">Dave wrote-- While it would seem that simply<pre><tt>using a different hammer type would solve the question variable density requirements, each of the felts mentioned, Bacon, Weickert, Wurzen VFG goes through a different process in the manufacturing of the sheet itself that gives each a slightly different character. While those differences may be subtle they are nevertheless there. A VFG hammer will not sound the same as a Bacon Felt with lacquer in it. </tt></pre><pre><tt>True but I also think the differences are more than slightly different. For example. I prefer a vary rich tone color. The Weickert for my ears does that most easily where as the VFG is somewhat more one </tt>dimensional. I've used lot and lots of Bacon felt and it density can quite erratic but its tone can also be quite sensational depending on how each sheet is pressed and the hammers turn out. It was my favorite before the Weickert. The Weickert consistency for me has been solid. </pre><pre> As Ray has said, he doesn't make hammers for every piano or every pianist. But its a darned good voicing platform for so many pianos and compared to many of the hammer I've triedover the years the Ronsen hammer yields the incredible musical tone with the least amount of voicing gymnastics. There are other choices for other pianos/pianist eliciting a different tonal pocket and thats great. We have other choices too,and we are fortunate. Viva La Difference</pre> <div style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: arial, helvetica; clear: both;">Dale Erwin R.P.T. Erwin's Piano Restoration Inc. Mason & Hamlin/Steinway/U.S. pianos www.Erwinspiano.com Phone: 209-577-8397 <tt><tt>     </tt></tt> </div> <div style="color: black; font-family: arial, helvetica;">-----Original Message----- From: David Love <davidlovepianos@comcast.net> To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Wed, Jan 23, 2013 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fwd: Ronsen hammer misconceptions -Was Hammer replacment suggestions <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_46c27bce-c187-4145-8bc4-fa0494a020d2" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <pre><tt>My experience is a bit different. I use Ronsen hammers frequently (all types) and think very highly of them. However, I would say that it is rare that the upper end of the piano does not need hardening and often some in the bass as well. Of course, it depends on the type of felt. VFG is, perhaps, the one exception being firmer than the rest and I’ve used it without having to harden at all. The Bacon is the softest and I’ve never (maybe once—exceptional case) not had to harden the entire set some though out. The Weickert has been the next step up and has, so far, always needed some help, though less than the Bacon. The Wurzen AA has been the next most dense and arrives at an acceptable level in the midrange, though for some it will want to come up. The treble, however, has also needed some help with a light lacquering on pretty much every piano that I’ve used it on. There have been some pianos where a different hammer choice was better given the requirements of the scale/soundboard. While it would seem that simply using a different hammer type would solve the question variable density requirements, each of the felts mentioned, Bacon, Weickert, Wurzen VFG goes through a different process in the manufacturing of the sheet itself that gives each a slightly different character. While those differences may be subtle they are nevertheless there. A VFG hammer will not sound the same as a Bacon Felt with lacquer in it. I agree whole heartedly with your overall statement that the hammer that requires the least amount of manipulation (up or down) is usually the best choice for a variety of reasons. While Ronsen makes a huge contribution to this industry (and I fear the day that Ray retires), there will be times when going outside the Ronsen family of hammers will be necessary, or at least recommended in my view, to satisfy the particular needs of a given piano. At least that’s been my experience. As mentioned previously, I think (and agree) that sampling is the best way to determine the best fit. David Love <a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> -----------------------------------------------------------------   Hi Terry    Its usually the people who have only ancient experience with Ronsen products who say the hammer is too soft. Boggles my mind. so...I wouldn't be too quick to drink that cool-aid.    For example...If you install Wurzen AA felt the sound may be too strident as it is quite a firm felt. Needling will be required. Almost for sure no hardeners required. Same with the  VFG felt from Germany    Ronsen Piano Hammer/Ray Negron  can make a hammer from felt for almost any density required and He or I can supply it.    I'd be willing to send some samples to try? Just ask.     > Terry, > I believe Ronsen would be too soft. Abel is a better guess. > Roger > > -----Original Message----- From: Terry Farrell </tt></pre> </div>  </div> </div>  </div>