<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div>Roger,<br /> The mention of uprights in the context of your contention is moot, I suspect, because I've never seen an upright where the agraffe serves as the termination point -- they are always above the upper plate bridge, where they are simply providing neat string spacing. And as for the rest of your post: I don't see any disagreement between us (just approach) because the "metal on metal" zing you refer to is, I believe created by the more widely-waving strings in a larger piano, with more volume and sustain, where they impinge on the termination. So it is the same material-to-material in a small, agraffe-less grand, but the strings don't as likely "zing" in them because the strings are not, due to short length, as physically displaced by hammer blows to create buzzing at the contact point.<br /><br />Thumpe</div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_"> <div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif:font-size:10pt"> <br /> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"> <font size="2" face="Tahoma"> <hr size="1"> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span> </b> Roger@Integra.net <rgable@integra.net>; <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold:">To:</span> </b> <pianotech@ptg.org>; <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold:">Subject:</span> </b> Re: [pianotech] question about agraffes and uprights <br> <b> <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span> </b> Sat, Feb 9, 2013 12:00:22 AM <br> </font> <br> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial';COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;"> <div>Terry,</div> <div>Agraffes are a more suitable termination for the lower and mid range frequencies. They are less likely to produce a zing in the string. Certainly, it is known that if you install a hard bridge pin made of water cooled drill rod, you will hear a zing in the string especially in the mid to lower sections; so hardness of the terminations are important. This zing is the result of two hard surfaces vibrating against each other. Although cast iron is a soft material, it is harder than brass and less suitable for a termination in the mid to low range. When you transfer this understanding to the treble section, the physics change, or reverse. Pianos that use brass (agraffes) as the termination in the treble have a tendency to create, over time, a soft pocket that doesn’t efficiently reflect the energy of the high frequencies, so a harder surface is desired. The underlying logic is that the high frequencies reflect adequately off of hard surfaces (cast iron) without producing a hard metal-to-metal buzz, and the low frequencies are better suited to a softer termination that reduce the chance of errant high frequencies entering the musical envelope.</div> <div> </div> <div>Now let’s see how the flood of comments or counter comment picks this apart, especially those that claim that the lower quality grand pianos with no agraffes sound “fine” and the good quality uprights without agraffes sound great.</div> <div> </div> <div>Roger Gable</div> <div>P.S. The relative expense to machine an agraffe is not simply to effect the even spacing of the strings, it’s a byproduct.</div> <div style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none;"> <div style="FONT:10pt tahoma;"> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;"> <div style=""><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com" ymailto="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">Terry Farrell</a> </div> <div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 08, 2013 4:36 AM</div> <div><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="pianotech@ptg.org" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a> </div> <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] question about agraffes and uprights</div></div></div> <div> </div></div> <div style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none;">I don't have an answer, but rather another question:  Why DID agraffes become the standard (tenor & bass) on grand pianos? <div> </div> <div>Was it just because they look cool - a marketing tool like three pedals and the longest bass strings.....?<br> <div> </div> <div>Terry Farrell</div> <div> <div> </div> <div> <div>On Feb 8, 2013, at 2:58 AM, <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:tnrwim@aol.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">tnrwim@aol.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type="cite"><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <div>I think primarily because of cost. There are some high end uprights that do have agraffes, but to keep the cost down on upright pianos they didn't. </div> <div> </div> <div>Wim</div> <div style="CLEAR:both;"> <div> </div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:arial, helvetica;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Duaine Hechler <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dahechler@att.net" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">dahechler@att.net</a>><br>To: pianotech <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br>Sent: Thu, Feb 7, 2013 9:05 pm<br>Subject: [pianotech] question about agraffes and uprights<br> <div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);MARGIN:0px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;" id="AOLMsgPart_0_2defa913-7b29-4122-af06-17b2bf87fbec"><pre style="FONT-SIZE:9pt;"><tt><font size="2">Simple</font> question - why didn't agraffes become standard on uprights ? -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ - Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding (314) 838-5587 / <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dahechler@att.net" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">dahechler@att.net</a> / <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com/">www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</a> Home & Business user of Linux - 13 years </tt></pre></div></div></font></blockquote></div> <div> </div></div></div></div></div></div></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </div> </div> </div>