<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" = http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=2>Terry,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I feel for ya brother. I too have "been there done that".  However, no matter how frustrating old uprights = are, there's a silver lining to your story.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I think Dale Erwin's reply on this subject is pretty = much on the money.  The customer has to be told upfront what costs should = be expected, along with the potential for additional charges for extra = required work. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>   Old uprights, bless their honky tonk = hearts, are usually land mines for breakage of actions parts and strings.  Lets = face it...old uprights are old, very old.  And many have not been kept = up to snuff, thus the problems increase.  To make matters worse, customers who normally buy old uprights ( and I'm speaking = from our part of the woods), usually are looking for the bargain of the = century.  They paid no more than $100,  probably moved it themselves, = and now are calling  you to give them the blue light special.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So you accept their job and go out bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to transform this beast into a thing of musical = beauty. </FONT><FONT size=2>You've agreed on the price, naively, and start the = job.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Then it starts...one jack breaks, then other, then a = string pops, then the inevitable...brass flanges begin breaking one = by one, and your worst nightmare begins to unfold. The schedule for the day has = just been ruined. Hours later you resurface from the nasty pit, bewildered. = Then you go home, still dazed, hoping to get sympathy from your loved one...zilch, then come to the realization that the only comfort you = need is a healthy dose of Pianotech Chat to hear the countless others who = have been through the same darn thing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>   As I said earlier, there is a silver = lining to this story.  Now you have something very valuable which will = benefit your financial picture for the rest of your working life: experience.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I find that with "old upright" customers, not to be = confused with old, upright customers,  I either charge extremely high for = the job, full knowingly I'm committing myself for the major part of the day,or = graciously bow out during the initial phone conversation.  The other option is = to refer them to your least favorite competitor. Doing a "quickie" tuning = on old uprights, especially ones which haven't been serviced in a long time, is = simply a dream, just a dream.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>For the record, my rant on this subject has nothing = to do with the quality and workmanship that obviously went to the making of these = pianos. Many are fine examples of piano manufacturing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>But in the real world, you are trying to make a good = living for yourself, offering a good quality service. However, the reality is = that many of these instruments have been schluffed off  from family to family = and basically have become destitute. The problems are extensive and the = financial reserves many of these customers are limited. Something has got to give. = The customer feels you are the one who should give in. You feel the customer = needs to buck up. The tug of war begins. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I seldom take on any new customers with the old = upright situation.  I have come to the conclusion, as you have, that some = of these customers simply don't want to pay more the basic low ball price. And = then they expect you to perform miracles.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Somewhere in this free world you have to be able to = make a buck.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Tom Servinsky, RPT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>----- Original Message ----- </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:Erwinpiano@email.msn.com" title=Erwinpiano@email.msn.com>Erwinpiano</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title=pianotech@ptg.org>pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 07, 2001 = 12:29 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fw: Under an hour = tuning (was labor rates)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com" title=mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>Farrell</A> <B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" = title=pianotech@ptg.org>pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 05, 2001 6:27 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Under an </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>. I wish we could charge strictly by the hour.</DIV> <DIV> <FONT face=Arial size=2>  I came into this thread = a little late Soooooooo</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>  Am I missing something?  = Why don't you, every other business does. Any way a good flat rate is supposed = to encompass prep,drive and work time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The old upright. The old upright. Geeeeezzz. The old upright. = Hmmm. First you spend 20 minutes trying to talk the owner out of doing anything = with it. After failure at that (although I do not always fail!), you tune three = notes - pound in a tuning pin - tune a few more - now you gotta stop = because you have a jack flange unglued - fix that - bla, bla, bla, - hammers = flying off - bla, bla, bla, - you know the picture here - even though you = charge extra to fix the jack flange and unglued hammer butt leather, and = broken hammer, etc., etc., it still slows you down big time. I find that old = uprights will take anywhere from 1 to 2 hours to tune - plus the repairs.</DIV> <DIV>   </DIV> <DIV>TerryBeen there done that!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>   Time in customers home = plus travel time , multiply by your hourly rate. What's the problem?  = Educating the customer is the problem and that starts on the phone with an = explanation of cost based on time spent. Yes some people will not go for anything = but the Lowest price in town ( so what)but what are they going to get for that = ? The possibly worst most unstable tuning money can buy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Quality most be sold and then = proven when given the oppurtunity.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <SPAN id=__#Ath#SignaturePos__></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV>So here I tune pianos in 45 minutes to 2 hours and charge the = same thing (actually I do charge the same for all except $5 more for spinets and = $10 more for old uprights). This is dictated by piano owners expecting one = price for tuning.</DIV> <DIV>   </DIV> <DIV>    Change their expectations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point? Just trying to understand how others work some of this = out. Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Terry Farrell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>     Terry, when = a potential client calls we quote a price range between 90 and 125 shekels of = silver with the explanation of why and also the posibility that the piano could = possibly need other work and that I (or you or somebody) can assess that while = tuning. Mostly this scares off the low end that are only calling for my = every other-decade tune up. Yawnnnnn. These people are the worst clients and = almost a waste of your effort. They tell no one else about you and you spent = a herculean effort for the not enough shekels one price fits all tuning = fee to try to straighten out thir Sorry& and Yuck( I really liked that)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hope that helps. Just my two cents worth.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Dale Erwin</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>