<HTML>List, I only had time to read a little of this thread but I'd like to calm the fears of those who think they just aren't tuning fast enough.  Take your time, do the job right and well.  It takes a great deal of experience to develop a really fast and sure technique, just as it does to be a really fine and accomplished musician. When visiting with Terry Peterson in June, he asked me about how long I would spend for the usual tuning fee.  It may easily only take me 10-15 minutes to move through a small vertical piano that is not far off pitch.  To do the same amount of work, it may take others up to 2 hours.  I never feel satisfied that just one pass is good enough, so I always do at least 2 passes which in most cases takes 30-45 minutes and I collect my fee. On the other hand, I cannot change the pitch of any piano which is more than 20 cents off with any less than 3 passes and have a good, stable tuning result.  The first pass takes more time because each pin takes more cranking.  The next two go more quickly.  A full half step pitch raise is a major undertaking.  Don't think it is anything less than that.  It would take me at least 4 passes.  I read about so many people saying that it will take 2 passes, so they charge extra for a 1/2 step.  DUH! Such a drastic change would take me at least 90 minutes and is NOT POSSIBLE in just 2 passes, I don't care how fancy your ETD is. On the other hand, the "stunning" tuning that has been talked about recently is a work of art for which no constraints of time can ever apply.  I've often heard people say how important it is to take new FAC or other measurements each time then proceed to do the one pass, calculated hit.  Believe me, folks, whatever precision there is in these measurements is *completely* negated by scale irregularities and the amount by which the tuning doesn't really hold as it is foolishly expected to do. The time it takes is relevant to the circumstances and so is the method. For the novice tuner, the best advice is to keep trying, keep your mind on your work, eliminate wasted time between movements, don't ever expect to really fine tune any piano by manipulating each pin only once and you'll be doing the best you can.  The speed will come with practice and experience. By the way, I learned my basic approach from Jim Coleman and George Defebaugh.  George is gone but if you value the wisdom of experience, ask Jim Coleman about how long a small pitch correction should take and whether any piano can really be properly tuned with only one correction to each string.   Jim often writes about some of the finer points these days but I feel the time may be right for him to talk about some of the most basic concepts for this List and for the record. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin </HTML>