<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=windows-1252"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>"If the top edge of the plate ends at the bottom = of the pinblock, it's called a three-quarter plate."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>Actually, it was a two-step (at = least major steps) evolution from the 3/4 plate to the modern full-web plate. 19th = Century pianos were mostly 3/4 plate with characteristics as you describe. Many = pianos within 10 years or so of the turn-of-the-Century (i.e. 1900) had = open-pinblock full plates with the plate extending up to the stretcher. I have a 1902 = Knabe grand and a 1900 Bechstein grand in my shop now that both = have this type of full, open-pinblock, plate. I also have a 1893 Knabe = plate that is the true 3/4 plate - it ends at the pinblock flange. I am = speaking mostly of American-made pianos here.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>Whereas your Steck may be from = 1910 or so, without the serial number, a better guess would be a manufacturing date = of 1900 or before. Another good clue is the case of these old uprights. Cases = from the 1800s commonly have quite a bit of carving on the case - rather ornate. = Then after 1900 there was an evolution to where by the 1920s the cases were = commonly very plain with very clean lines. Other good clues to age are rocker = capstans (almost certainly pre-1900) and straight-strung (way = pre-1900).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>"...many of the pins were very loose, and as I'm = tuning it I'm seeing that the pinblock is riddled with cracks, which of course = helps to explains the looseness."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>Maybe yes, but probably not a = good indicator of pinblock cracks. Every open-faced pinblock I have seen has a fancy = veneer covering the (usually) maple pinblock. I have seen veneers that are = cracked to-all-get-out with the pinblock in good condition.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT size=3>Does anyone know whether = this is how the piano was actually designed?</FONT> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT = size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT color=#008000 size=3>Yes it is.</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT size=3>And if so, do you have any idea = why?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#008000 size=3>Good question. I don't know. My = guess has always been that it was perceived as an advantage during = the manufacturing process - one could be nursing a mean hangover (or be the first day on = the job) and still be able to figure out where to drill the tuning pin = holes. However, keep in mind, that full plates were being used on the big = square American pianos way back in the 1860s.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#008000 size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#008000 size=3>BTW - are the square plates plate = steel or cast iron? They sure seem flat and universally smooth ....... leading me to = suspect they are plate steel (a plate plate or a cast = plate?).</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#008000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Dave Nereson" <</FONT><A href="mailto:davner@kaosol.net"><FONT face=Arial size=2>davner@kaosol.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial = size=2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "Pianotech" <</FONT><A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><FONT face=Arial size=2>pianotech@ptg.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial = size=2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:45 AM</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: Geo. Steck = upright</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT = face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: = "David Melis" <</FONT><A href="mailto:pianotunings@juno.com"><FONT face=Arial size=2>pianotunings@juno.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial = size=2>><BR>> To: <</FONT><A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><FONT face=Arial size=2>pianotech@ptg.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial = size=2>><BR>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 12:23 PM<BR>> Subject: Geo. Steck = upright<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Hello!<BR>> > <BR>> > As a first-time = poster, new tuner, and total novice in the art and<BR>> > science of piano = technology, I have been dutifully taking in all the<BR>> > wisdom, = advice, and experience that the many regular contributors to this<BR>> > = list have to offer.  Thank you for all that I have learned and all that = I<BR>> > will learn.  <BR>> > <BR>> > This last weekend I = tuned a full-size Geo. Steck upright, vintage<BR>> > 1910-15, if the piano = tech who last worked on it is correct.  (I did not<BR>> > make a = note of the serial number, regrettably.  From what the owner said,<BR>> = > the piano tech who dated it based his/her age estimate on the fact = that<BR>> > the bass strings are wound with what appears to be steel rather = than<BR>> > copper.)  <BR>> <BR>>     While some = piano makers went to nickel-plated windings rather than copper during wartime (WW I = was 1914-1918), sometimes they were used just because they were less = expensive (I presume).  I've seen nickel windings on old pianos from the early = 1900's when no war was going on.  At any rate, the serial number and an = atlas is better for finding the year of manufacture (if records are = available).<BR>> <BR>> In any case, many of the pins were very loose, and as = I'm<BR>> > tuning it I'm seeing that the pinblock is riddled with cracks, which = of<BR>> > course helps to explains the looseness.  It took two hours to = get it as<BR>> > good as I could, and not until I got home and was = thinking about it did I<BR>> > realize -- duh! -- that I have never before seen a = piano where the<BR>> > pinblock was exposed and not covered by the = plate.  How interesting!<BR>>  > Does anyone know whether this is how = the piano was actually designed? <BR>> > And if so, do you have any = idea why?  I would love to know more.  <BR>>  > Best regards,<BR>>  > David G. Melis<BR>> > Associate = Member, Piano Technicians Guild<BR>> > 1512 West Thorndale<BR>> > Chicago, = IL  60660<BR>> > (773) 728-9762 <BR>> <BR>> Plenty of = pianos, grand and vertical, have exposed pinblock faces.  It's mainly in = older pianos, but by no means rare.  There's an article on exposed = (open-face) vs. covered (closed-face) pinblocks in the Jan. & Feb. 2002 = Journal.  It's more about tuning pins actually, the gist being that in an = open-face pinblock, the coils can be closer to the surface of the pinblock, making = for less "flagpoling" than in the closed-face pinblock, where the thickness = of the plate adds to the amount of unsupported tuning pin sticking out of the block.  (Plate bushings add a little support, but not much.)  = <BR>>     Yes, this is how it and most early pianos were designed.  If the top edge of the plate ends at the bottom of the = pinblock, it's called a three-quarter plate.  The idea of having the plate = extend all the way over the pinblock and drilling holes for all the pins came = later. <BR>>     --David Nereson, RPT <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> pianotech list = info: </FONT><A href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives"><FONT = face=Arial size=2>https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</FONT></A><BR><FON= T face=Arial size=2>> </FONT></BODY></HTML>