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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you Andrew, for your answer. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I had read much before asking the
question... I understood the theory, but I wanted to know in =
what
measure it was something very strict or if sometimes piano were tuned as =
if
being a "theoretical piano", just for an example to match them with =
other
instrument not needing stretched tuning... So my question was more
about usages or fashions than technical...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From your explanation, and from another =
that
came directly on my e-mail, I understand that there are no =
exceptions to
stretching... ok, In fact I knew the problem of tuning very =
different
pianos... but then my question is "how is it usually solved ?", =
especially when
a piano plays with an orchestre.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And about temperament, are there =
also
temperaments more commonly used ? amongst tuners ? and amongst clients
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Philippe</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=anrebe@sbcglobal.net =
href="mailto:anrebe@sbcglobal.net">Andrew and
Rebeca Anderson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 12, 2006 =
3:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: temperaments - =
choosing ?
stretched ? not stretched ?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>Phillippe,<BR>I am =
not sure what
you mean by a "stretched temperament." Tuning is stretched on a =
piano
because of inharmonicity caused by the stiffness of piano wire. =
When the
wire subdivides vibrations after being struck by the hammer it does so =
losing
a little length with each subdivision because the wire is stiff. =
The
higher the partial, the more length is lost and the sharper the =
coincident
tone. When tuning a piano aurally, stretch occurs naturally as =
you match
those partials. You hear the tone blossom or open up, if you =
will, as
you come into coincidence. Where you place it in that narrow =
zone is a
matter of taste--narrow, middle or wide.<BR><BR>Because different =
pianos are
scaled (choice of wire size) differently, no one recording of =
reference tones
will work throughout the compass. Sometimes manufacturers will =
"refine"
their scaling in a given model more than once in a year and the same =
model of
piano will actually have a different scale. The result of =
different
scales is different tuning sometimes obvious at the extreme ends of =
the
compass. The pianos will not harmonize to a greater or lessor
degree. Actually, a lot of scaling refinement happens at the =
break from
the long bridge to the bass bridge and the break from wound strings to =
unwound
strings. <BR><BR>An example of how scaling differences can show =
up in
real life happened at a university where my wife worked as a =
pianist.
They had a NY Steinway D and a Bosendorfer concert grand. For a =
concert
they chose to have four-hand, two piano accompaniment of the mass =
choir.
I was attending the concert and during an intermission the choral =
director
approached me and asked/complained why their tuner couldn't get the =
pianos in
tune with each other. Knowing the person in question was a fine, =
pre-eminent technician, I knew the problem wasn't the tuning and asked =
about
the pianos. I explained how different piano makers would scale =
their
instruments differently pursuing different philosophies of sound and =
that in
order for a piano to be "in-tune" the resulting scales must be tuned
differently. The only perfectly harmonious note she could count =
on would
be A4, middle A. (Even then such different pianos would respond =
to
climate differently and go out of tune differently.) Steinway =
with its
low tension scale and Bosendorfer with its high tension scale were =
destined to
clash. Those piano-makers have very different goals they =
accomplish with
their instruments. The university has since purchased another =
Steinway
D.<BR><BR>This is why guitar tuners do not work for tuning =
pianos. Piano
tuners are more complex and cost multiples of an ordinary tuner. =
There
are a variety of electronic tuners offered explicitly for tuning =
pianos.
The cheap ones have stretch templates that may or may not do a good =
job of
"parodying" the piano you are tuning. The mid-level ones sample =
three
notes on a piano and then calculate a stretch curve for the entire
piano. The high-end one measures each note you tune and fits it =
into the
scale based on the measurements and records those measurements along =
with
partial strength to influence the placement of other notes. =
Scaling
breaks occur at many places in the piano. Every time you change =
wire
size, you have a scaling break. That will influence =
tuning. People
who tune relying strictly on their ETD will find that aural checks of =
an FAC
type ETD will reveal tuning problems on pianos that have prominent =
scaling
breaks (usual in little pianos).<BR><BR>As to temperament preferences, =
Equal
Temperament is the most dissonant temperament. It is also the =
most
flexible temperament, allowing transposition without changing the =
character of
a musical piece. The further you wander from equal towards just
temperament the more consonant common keys and intervals will =
become.
This comes at a price. The dissonance will be confined more and =
more
into increasingly dissonant keys/intervals. The repertoire =
becomes more
and more constrained by the tuning. I like =
well-temperaments. I've
enjoyed Barnes Bach on a piano for some time. The piano sounded =
much
better and more powerful as many intervals were close to =
consonant. The
difficulty was in the more modern repertoire. Debussy came =
across more
like sand-paper then the creamy/dreamy sounds you expect from this
composer. Composers that utilized unequal temperaments wrote =
pieces that
took advantage of those inequalities. When you switch keys in =
Mozart,
Beethovan, Bach etc. you audibly switch gears in a =
well-temperament.
Modern composers wrote for what they heard on the piano, some =
advocated for
ET. Understand what you are getting when you choose a tuning and =
then
make your choice.<BR><BR>Good luck,<BR>Andrew Anderson<BR><BR>At 06:30 =
AM
2/12/2006, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=2>Hi =
all,
<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>I'm currently studying =
temperaments, and I
wonder if a tuner always use a stretched temperament, <BR>especially =
since
this doesn't seems quite compatible with the use of electronic =
tuning
devices.<BR>(for the not aural tuners...)<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>This question, especially since I've a CD with reference =
tones for a
stretched temperament, which <BR>seems quite strange since a =
stretched
temperament should depend on the kind of piano, shouldn't <BR>they ? =
So what
?<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>subsidiary question : as a =
tuner, do you
prefer to use equal temperament ? or do you prefer to use =
<BR>another one ?
(which one) ... Or do your clients often have their specific =
requests ? (in
this case<BR>what are you commonly asked =
?)<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Philippe =
Errembault</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>