<HTML>In a message dated 4/26/01 1:07:07 PM Central Daylight Time, remoody@midstatesd.net (Richard Moody) writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">There is a first consideration to pursue before addressing the proposition that  "EBVT tunings cannot be accurately  represented by cents offset from ET." That is to get the person who says this to tune a piano in EBVT, erase the tuning, have him/her/them tune the piano again and see if the two tunings are the same. If they are, and  if the tuning was done by ear,  that is one thing.  Then I suppose you could bring in the machines to record it.    If he can only tune by machine simply ask for the offsets used.    What more can you ask for? For any tuning to be considered for performance or artist purposes it must be rendered consistant from piano to piano. Other wise what use is it?  If a single set of  offsets cannot satisfy this criterion then forget EBVT at least as far as machines are concerned.</BLOCKQUOTE> I and at least one other person have explained this before but I guess the message just did not get through.  I'm sure that a set of offsets can be determined that would approximate the aural EBVT that I do or the way I do it by the Direct Interval method using the SAT.  But what *none* of the smooth curve calculation programs that I know of can do is Tempered Octave system that I have used now for some 15 years (and by the way, have proved many times over that I can do it with the same consistency whether aurally or electronically). In my aural instructions, it says to make the A3-A4 octave a 6:3 type.  Then, if you follow the instructions through to tune a temperament sequence from F3-F4, that octave will be a perfect 4:2 type.  As you ascend and descend the scale of the piano, there will be octaves of varying sizes throughout.  As far as I know, all of the programs there are create octaves that vary in size only on a gradual basis, not from one note to the next. Having already addressed all of the accusations of incorrectness, unethical behavior and insanity, I can only say that if someone comes up with a set of "Correction Figures" (as they are usually called) and uses them, thinking that the result will be what I do, day in and day out, that person will have results that do not match what I do in any way at all. I tried the correction figures that Mr. Scott supplied some time ago and wrote that the results were not at all accurate.  Now, I not being a person who ever has used an FAC program and got paid for doing so, I'll hold open the possibility that maybe I didn't know how to do it right.  But even if I did and Mr. Scott's figures turn out to be correct, the issue of tuning Tempered Octaves as I do will still not be satisfied, therefore, I still maintain that no one can do what I do with that kind of approach. I also, however hold open the possibility that with Mr. Scott's computer expertise, he could eventually duplicate the Tempered Octave system, it will just have to be another kind of approach that is completely different from that which is used to tune ET. Any person using an SAT to tune a Victorian temperament from Owen's book, Tuning or a Victorian-like temperament such as the Coleman 11 will have a result that is far different from what I do even though on the surface, the EBVT, the Coleman 11 and one of the Broadwood temperaments appear to be similar. The EBVT with Tempered Octaves is an entirely new approach to the tuning of the modern piano.  It must be studied to be learned and should be done first aurally but an Electronic Tuning Device (ETD) such as the SAT can be used to assist, verify and store the tuning as may be desired. Please don't try to use an FAC type program to attempt the EBVT with tempered octaves, it won't work because it is not based on the same principles. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin</HTML>