<html> <body> Hi Andre,             &nbs= p;    We play from the same page and have the same philosophy toward regulation.    Wonder if the YTA had any thing to do with it? The tight specs you refer to, cannot be attained in a one pass regulation.    So we do not confuse some readers. The 1mm clearance that I referred to as being ample will suffice.  To Attain the tolerances that Andre is the complete regulation procedure has to be done approximately 3 times. My definition of after touch is.   Lost time and lost space.      There has to be some, any extra is a waste. Like you I am anal about the quality of front rail punching's.  I take it a step further, and make sure the card and paper punching's are kept to a minimum, to reduce the concertina effect.   On concert pianos I have a trade mark of a blue punching under the felt ).010"  this way I can increase the after touch very quickly at a pianist request, with out messing with the hammer line. I hope this clears up my position.    I am in 100% agreement with you Andre. After touch, transmits more about the soul of a piano, to the pianist than we can ever imagine. Thank's for your wonderful contributions Andre, they are greatly valued. Regards Roger At 02:28 PM 3/29/2004, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><blockquote type=cite class=ci= te cite>----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Jolly To: Pianotech Sent: 3/29/2004 7:45:00 AM Subject: Re: Jack to knuckle position Hi Julie,             &nbs= p;  1mm with out the front rail punching starting to become depressed,  will give a generous amount of after touch. The front rail punching, enters into the equation big time.   After touch within limits is a personal preference. So no black and white answer to the question. With a smile on my face:  Depends on which way the nap lies??????  mmmmmmmmmmmm Regards Roger </blockquote> After touch is a rather important issue. I personally think a seminar of certainly 2 hours could be done about this subject. Why? Because after touch determines touch and sound. After touch is a safety measure. Too much after touch is a waste. Too little after touch, a deficiency and a nuisance. Why? When we regulate an action correctly, we have to obey certain rules, like : Regulation starts with the keyboard. The keys usually all must have a key dip of 10 mm (except for regulation rules defined by some 'idiots'  (like Steinway, Pleyel and Blüthner) who were of a different opinion. (smile...... (; >))  ) Key dip relates to hammer striking distance as, roughly speaking. 1: 5 (usually a little less in the striking distance) This means that with a very strict key dip of 10 mm, we may expect a hammer striking distance of a little less than 50 mm. Both Steinway and Yamaha supply us with a striking distance gauge of 46 mm as an average (and thus more or less correct) striking distance. Normally speaking, 46 mm should be in accordance with a key dip of 10 mm or even slightly less (9,8 mm). Most actions will satisfy these demands and give us a general ok result. However, sometimes, an action may have just a little trouble maybe with these measures in one or two hammer sections, caused by the iron frame or otherwise) and this will have to alter the striking distance of these same hammer sections. These alterations are mainly caused by the curvature of the soundboard and the iron frame, or a technical deficiency in the action or the key bed. To get the utmost out of any action, we must strictly follow the universal regulation instructions and then...  check the possibilities and/or limitations of these actions. After we have regulated an action 'according to the rules we have learned', we could check the amount of after touch in different sections of the action. We do this by gently depressing 'a' key and following the subsequent hammer movement through let off and drop. After the hammer has gone trough the let off and 'drop' movement, the key will immediately afterwards  rest on the front rail punching. After the key has touched the front rail punching, we should gently press on the key and see if there still is a movement in the hammer. By gently pressing the key after all the action movements, we should be able to move the hammer in an upward motion by 0,4 mm. 0,4 mm is very little, but when the front punching is too soft, an after touch of 1 mm or more is no exception. For that reason, we MUST remove a too soft front punching before we start regulation. There are several very good front punching options  available : There is the Yamaha front punching for serial instruments and  for Yamaha concert instruments, there is Steinway front punching, and there is Wurzen front punching. These three have a thickness of 5mm basically and are excellent for any piano. When we are certain that the front punching is of excellent quality (this is of course very important)  the after touch can be measured very accurately. Any after touch of more than 0,4 mm we call a 'soft landing'. A soft 'landing' is caused by : a too soft front punching (the key sinks into the too soft front punching too much) A too large key dip (the key dip is too big in relationship with the striking distance) A too short striking distance (the striking distance is too little in relationship with the key dip) A perfect l'anding' is an after touch of 0,4 mm. A hard 'landing' is almost no after touch or no after touch. A hard 'landing' means that we move key, wippen and hammer through all the playing motions without any lost motion. There is no extra movement in the action available. A hard 'landing' is actually the very best solution because there is no waste of time, and no waste of energy, but at the same time it causes a danger for the pianist when he/she plays ppp, because, when there is no extra movement available, it may cause the jack, in extreme circumstances, to not quite go away from under the knuckle and thereby cause the hammer to bounce on the jack (especially when the repetition spring is tight, or when the combination hammer-and-backcheck is not optimal). In that case, a so called free movement of the jack after let off and drop is essential. friendly greetings from André Oorebeek Amsterdam - The Netherlands 0031-20-6237357 0645-492389 0031-75-6226878 <a href="http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/" eudora="autourl">www.concer= tpianoservice.nl</a> <a href="http://www.grandpiano.nl/" eudora="autourl">www.grandpiano.nl</= a> "where music is, no harm can be" </blockquote></x-html> </blockquote></body> </html>