<HTML>In a message dated 3/27/2002 9:32:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, hufford1@airmail.net writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Re: Steinway 457cps pitch Date:3/27/2002 9:32:16 AM Pacific Standard Time From:<A HREF="mailto:hufford1@airmail.net">hufford1@airmail.net</A> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet               Robin and all             Robin excellent point about scaling</BLOCKQUOTE>            Although this is slightly off topic I think the following should be kept in mind when being tempted to cross the line into the tuners twilight zone of higher pitches.               I think it is important to bear in mind that one major reason I believe that these different pitch levels were possible is that ,and I think its clear from some discussions on the list and with certain bass string makers in particular about breaking strains, that wire qualitys have suffered in recent times and I contend that stronger less brittle quality wire was readily available and in use during the times were discussing.           For example,I owned a 1927 Stwy L and I lived with it tonally for quite some time as the original strings really sounded amazinly  good. When I restrung the piano (same Board-bearing same orighinal hammers) the bass at the top end (notes 22 thru 26 really took a nose dive in the power and tone quality aspect. I had taken all the i.d.'s and o.d.s plus the speaking lengths and crunched the numbers against those of the the new strings. Guess what? The old/original  strings in this section were scaled at 70% of breaking strength (Meaning more tension)  compared to the much lower strain of as I recall 56 to 60%. I asked to have these strings remade at the higher tensions but agreed to absolve Mr Ari Isaac of any liability should they break.  He was very reluctant to do this but frankly I think the Japanese wire he used or uses is a better wire than roslau  or mapes and I'd love to prove it and use it. Just my extremely biaised opinon        I re-installed the new strings the  tone and power came back. Twelve years later the strings are still holding up and sounding grand.    I believe piano makers and tuners had the latitude to tune at higher pitches without changing scales. However no doubt it was still a risky business even then but we don't at this time seem to know how risky.  Can you imagine tuning any modern piano at A-457 without wire failure either in the process of doing so or soon after?                   NOT ME!!>>>>>>>Dale Erwin <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Jason, Ric, Dale      One of the points I was attempting to make in regard to pitch, in addition to its higher levels was that the scaling, apparently, was not altered even though pitch may have been variable on the same instruments.   In the context of todays generalized "rescaling" for numerical reasons, perhaps, this says something, or perhaps, not. Regards, Robin Hufford </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>