<HTML>In a message dated 10/16/2002 11:38:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bases-loaded@juno.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Re: Piano Lac Finish Date:10/16/2002 11:38:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time From:<A HREF="mailto:bases-loaded@juno.com">bases-loaded@juno.com</A> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet </BLOCKQUOTE>                  Mark Thank you so much for this description. It was imenseley helpful.          I just finished another mahogony sample board this am. Although it still had some open grain from spraying to heavy it came out fairly well untill I got to the final rubout. With nitro cell we sand the final gloss coats with 600 wet then finish with steel wool and polish for a semi but glossyier than semi gloss appearance . We get a very translucent finish starting out with a water dye. But when trying a similar rubout on the water base gloss the end result is not as clear but kind of hazy. It's much better than when we first started. Mr. Gutlo sent me a mahogony piece nicely polished  and the clarity is stunning but I don't wish to do polished finnishes. So my question is what kind of rubout are you doing. How's the clarity? Whats the process? I'll can't except anything muddy / hazy looking myself.    By the way what product are you using????????     Thanks again. Still grinding away in Modesto>>>>Dale Erwin <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> . Hi Thump - (To be clear, in the following reply I am not referring to Pianolac specifically, a finish I have never tried, but rather to water-based lacquer in general, and I HAVE used quite a few of them.) Like riding a bike, I think you could read forever on the subject of spraying and only gain insight by experience alone.  I think Dale's experience illustrates what I was referring to rather succinctly.  "Stuff just happens", and even more so when you are coming to something for the first time.  In addition, the chemistry of the Water-based materials make them a bit of an odd critter to spray if one has spent years spraying solvent-based, making the application seem counter-intuitive in many ways.  Basically most of it comes down to more control over your technique with the gun, and attention to proper atomization of the product.  I think the stuff is considerably less forgiving that way than nitro, and only part of that is due to the high solids content of the material.  Put another way, I guess you could say it is a more complex finish.  "Spraying water-based 101" would be a class solely devoted to not only learning how much material to apply in a pass, but would include learning to know what it "looks like" on the surface when wet.  Your experience from nitro tells you there is not nearly enough material on there because it looks uneven, with craters and orange peel waiting to rear their ugly heads.  The leveling takes place in a coalescing fashion dissimilar from nitro, so it can be visually disconcerting. Consequently, there is a tendency to apply either too little or too much in compensation until you have had enough hands-on experience to tell you otherwise.  Only by familiarizing yourself with the product by use would you have any hope of becoming efficient with it, but to me it was well worth the effort.  I have very few unpleasant surprises these days, and certainly no more than one would have applying any finish. Mark Potter bases-loaded</BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>