<HTML>In a message dated 1/29/2002 9:50:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, Wimblees@AOL.COM writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Subj:Re: Twisting bass strings Date:1/29/2002 9:50:51 AM Pacific Standard Time From:<A HREF="mailto:Wimblees@AOL.COM">Wimblees@AOL.COM</A> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To:<A HREF="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Sent from the Internet              Wim& David</BLOCKQUOTE>                I have had this discussion with G.C  Ari Isaac both. It is not the bridge. The whole understanding revolves around the winding process and how much the string is tensioned (elongated) during wrapping . How much  tension(elongation ( is apparently a fussy thng but generally what I've discovered from experience and conversation with  Ari Isaac and Danny at G.C. string, is that there are certain parameters that when exceeded affect how tight the wrap is in compression against itself after it is tensioned and how that  effect  sound. This is a conditin the effets primarily the tenor supplemantels. The bichords I twist once the monos a half.    If exceeded one way or the other the end result is either a string that brightens too quickly but ends up buzzing soon or sooner ,or develops falseness or lacks clarity. On the other end is just a string that never comes up. If the parameters are reasonable the strings can be twisted the usual one time and even if they don't brighten immediately my experience with the G.C. string is that they will brighten within a day or so of being at pitch. If they don't I have found an extra twist will do it. It's always the highest string in the scale that is last to get there.     The problem is in being patient and not having an immediate cow (like I often have)      This phenomenum is more acute on the small diameter copper wraps on tenor supplemental sections. The smaller they are the more difficult it is for any string maker to wrap them and make them sound clear and clean without false beats.     Danny has tried it many ways and has determined that this compromise works the best in that the strings don't develop faseness and remain clear and tunable long term. I have verified  this by following many of my own rebuilds.    As you can imagine Danny has had this discussion with countless people on this issue. The way it all shake out is that he can make them brighter sooner but with the increased risk of falseness and lack of clarity. I've encouraged him to print a flier to send with the strings explaining the peculiaritys of this phenomenum and hope he does.                Clear as mud? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dale Erwin>>>>>>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Wim: Let me be more specific.  The sets of Sanderson strings that I have used seem to require no twisting (in fact they don't suggest doing it).  A set of GC strings I put on recently required two full twists in the tenor (tenor bridge) before coming to life.  Why is that?  Does that say anything as to the method of wrapping the string?   David Love </BLOCKQUOTE> I don't know what GC string are, but I wonder, with you having to twist only the tenor bridge strings to get them to come to life, I wonder if it might be the bridge. Again, let's look at the lost energy thing. I wonder if by putting the extra twists in the strings, you are also adding more sideways and downward pressure on the bridge. If the bridge is loose, then perhaps that added pressure is enough to tighten the bridge on the soundboard, reducing the energy lost between them.  Just guessing. :) Wim </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>