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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yabut....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dr. Sanderson, inventor of the SAT, =
recommends 20%
on wound strings, 33% for the first six plain-wire unisons, then 25% to =
the top.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since others have success with slightly =
different
percentages, it seems (and is interesting) that the exact =
percentage or
location in the piano is not all that critical a factor ... =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Alan Barnard</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ramsey@extremezone.com =
href="mailto:ramsey@extremezone.com">Kevin E.
Ramsey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 22, 2002 =
10:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pitch Raises ... =
Multiple
Passes?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well, glad I caught this posting. To =
answer your
question; 20% is perfect in the bass for me, because I strip mute the =
bass,
tune all the single notes, and then pull out the strip and tune =
unisons.
However, when I get to the plain wire strings, I'm pitch raising =
unisons as I
go up. Now, if a piano has all the notes on one side of the note =
you're tuning
already pulled up to pitch, then a 25% overpull is the appropriate =
amount for
the entire piano. (With the SAT, the trick is knowing where to sample =
them).
The only time 33% overpull is used is when you're pitch raising the =
single
strings without pulling in the unisons as you go. And even then, the =
way to do
it is to tune the temperament at a 33% overpull, and as you go up =
stretch the
octaves until they have a beat in them, leveling off at you get to the =
top.
Two whole different techniques, two whole different overpull =
percentages.
Perhaps I'm wrong, or someone will argue that I'm wrong, and that's =
fine. I've
just done it that way, and it worked out almost perfectly. I prefer =
using a
SAT, because that guarantees me that I'll be within two cents without =
having
to work hard at all. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> But, 33% percent =
is necessary
if you do it the "old" way, the way people did it before ETDs. I don't =
think
it would ever be right if you were using an ETD and pulling in unisons =
as you
go. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Hope that clears =
it up.
</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com
href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">Farrell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 22, =
2002 8:56
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pitch Raises ... =
Multiple
Passes?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>You didn't answer my question! :-) =
Yes, my
norm is to do a two pass pitch raise for anything more than 60 or 70 =
cents
flat (although on this Winter, I did in fact pitch raise it in one =
pass -
don't tell anyone!). But that was not the question. Let's say we =
have a
piano that is 30 cents flat. The tune unisons as you go approach =
would
suggest that something like 20% overpull in bass, 25% in tenor, and =
33%
overpull in treble areas is appropriate to get you to target pitch. =
If you
strip mute the piano for your pitch raise and only tune the center =
strings,
then pull out the mute felt and tune unisons, how might that affect =
your
selected overpull percentages? Thanks.<BR><BR>Terry =
Farrell<BR>
<BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Kevin E. Ramsey" <<A
=
href="mailto:ramsey@extremezone.com">ramsey@extremezone.com</A>><BR>=
To:
<<A =
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:04 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Pitch Raises ... =
Multiple
Passes?<BR><BR><BR>Terry, that's a good question. Most of the time =
when I
see something like your high performance Winter that's that flat, I =
figure
it would be safer to do two pitch raises. I feel better spreading =
that much
tension out over the whole instrument rather than loading up one =
section
tuning from bass to treble. I always strip mute no matter what I'm =
doing, it
just seems easier to pull it out than to move mutes constantly.
<BR> If you were to try pitch raising one of these =
things
that much and hit it right on the money in one pass, I don't think =
you'd
have much luck because the different sections of the piano are going =
to
react differently depending on the thickness of the plate and =
stiffness of
the soundboard, and other intangibles. You could certainly get it =
pretty
close though. <BR> I would strip it off and do two =
really
quick pitch raises, the first just slightly higher than in tune, =
pull in the
unisons, and then do an equally quick regular pitch raise, then fine =
tune. I
don't like replacing strings in spinets too much myself. I remember =
trying
to do it the way you mentioned a few times when I was starting out,
carefully recalculating the single wire flatness for a 33% overpull =
as I
went up. I pulled in the unisons, and it was close enough to get =
there in a
second pass, but it was more work than it was worth, I thought. =
<BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR> From: Farrell <BR> To: =
<A
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> <BR> =
Sent:
Thursday, August 22, 2002 5:18 AM<BR> Subject: Re: Pitch =
Raises ...
Multiple Passes?<BR><BR><BR> Hello Kevin. I was raising the =
pitch of a
massive high performance Winter spinet yesterday a full half-step. =
And I was
thinking that it would go faster if I were to strip mute the piano, =
PR just
the middle strings, then go back a do the unisons. Do you do that in =
the
plain wire sections? How do you find that approach affects your =
overpull
percentage needed? Thanks.<BR><BR> Terry =
Farrell<BR>
<BR> ----- Original Message ----- <BR> From: "Kevin E. =
Ramsey"
<<A
=
href="mailto:ramsey@extremezone.com">ramsey@extremezone.com</A>><BR>=
To: <<A
=
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>><BR> =
Sent:
Wednesday, August 21, 2002 11:30 PM<BR> Subject: Re: Pitch =
Raises ...
Multiple Passes?<BR><BR><BR> Joe, glad it works for you, =
however, I
find that the bass requires a twenty percent over-pull. Perhaps our =
methods
differ; during a pitch raise, I tune the single bass strings and one =
string
of each bi-chord first, then I pull out the strip and tune unisons =
by
ear. I'm also tuning the bass first, ala Sanderson. When I do =
a pitch
raise, I do it with a SAT (Gets you real close, real fast), so I do =
the bass
first. I can understand the 10% overpull thing only if I've already =
brought
the rest of the piano up first. <BR> =
Please
clarify.<BR> ----- Original Message -----
<BR> From: Joe And Penny Goss =
<BR> To:
<A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>
<BR> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:46
PM<BR> Subject: Re: Pitch Raises ... Multiple
Passes?<BR><BR><BR> Kevin,<BR> =
If the
bass is about 30 cents flat I want to raise the note about three =
cents sharp
( about 10% ) of pitch. So with a SATlll that raises the pitch =
25%
that would result in too much over pull for me so I will set the =
over pull
for 12 cents and roll the program into the =
machine.<BR> I
take only one measurement at A2 to arrive at my over pull. Works =
very well
for me.<BR> I use the 25% in the tenor and about =
C4 the
30% to the top then retune.<BR> On pianos 25% or =
less flat
or sharp I use the Verituner 100 and its 10% bass, 30%
tenor,<BR> and 36% treble and
retune.<BR> Joe Goss<BR> <A
=
href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR> &nbs=
p;
<A
=
href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A><BR>=
----- Original Message ----- <BR> =
From: Kevin
E. Ramsey <BR> To: <A
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>
<BR> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 =
7:40
PM<BR> Subject: Re: Pitch Raises ... =
Multiple
Passes?<BR><BR><BR>
><BR> > =
All
wound strings: 1/5 (Example: You test 10 notes, or so, and
find<BR>
them<BR> > about 30 cents flat. You =
would
set your ETD to +6 cents sharp and =
tune<BR>
those<BR> > strings to that
=
setting.)<BR><BR><BR> &nbs=
p;
Here's another little brain saver: What if you're pitch =
raising a
piano and want to do a 20% overpull in the bass, and it's, say, 28 =
cent's
flat. (let's see, one fifth of twenty eight would be ......... =
ah........
ah........)
<BR><BR> Take =
28, and
double it for 56. Move the decimal point over to the left one place. =
<BR><BR> =
5.6 is
1/20th of 28. =
<BR><BR>
At least, that's how I do it. =
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