<HTML>.                    Esteemed Listees            I have found the recent thread informative. I sometimes enjoy being the contrarian and this is one of them. I think it's fine that tunings can be done in such short times IF there is stability to accompany all that rush and fury.    I don't care if it takes 30 minutes or 2 hrs as long as the piano is stable and sounds musical. Define stable. Any of you who follow your own work can attest to whether or not this is occurring but this is how I define it.      In My opinion many tuners can hear pitch or see pitch but getting it set so it will last longer than a week is another. I find the primary indicator of instability to be the whiny unison syndrome. This condition is usually the indicator of not enough time or technique applied to pin setting and settling blows and NOT a recent shift in climate.     Even with modest temperature or humidity swings a truly stable tuning will not readily show up whiny unisons. It will show up a temperament or octave contraction or expansion but not enough usually to draw a call back complaint. (90% of all call backs on a tuning are unison complaints).     In 1976 at Red Schoolhouse, Laroy Edwards and the Japanese instructors, all stated that the practice of spending 1 1/2 hrs at the piano was the customary and suggested length of time. Even if the tuning only takes 45 min. improve the piano in other ways but spending less time makes the client wonder what they are paying for especially if your there only 45 minutes or less.  I get infrequent complaints on a tuner that only spends 30 minutes at the piano. It intuitively didn't seem right to them. How many didn't complain but just didn't call him back again?      I enjoyed David Loves business philosophy of an appointment covers an 1 1/2 hr time slot to do what's needed.       Obviously routinely tuned pianos will take less time to tune but improvement in other areas can be made. I think this discussion of tuning times is informative but not all that useful. Any improvement I ever made in stability came with time spent working along side a mentor (Father and Dick Hamlett) that could demonstrate really good hammer technique and practice.       It is not my goal to insult any body and especially veterans  who know the stability of your work, but speed isn't the factor that impresses techs. or clients who can hear. Thoroughness does.          Even acknowledging that every one works at there own rhythm doesn't change the work that 220 pins or so per piano require to be set solidly.     I'm also acknowledging that even the best tuners among us will get call backs when D.Cs are not plugged in or serious swings in temp & humidity occur in a short time but I don't think we should use these things as common excuses for lack of tuning stability because maybe not enough time was spent on stabilizing the pins/pitch. Been there.    My last pet point is that if my speed is really good or the piano stable I can spend time raising the hammer blow, let-off etc.Voicing? uhhuh! I find these items go ever so severely wanting when the crusade  to tune 4 or more pianos a day is occurring. Ask me how I know.            Regards and flame suit is on.            Dale Erwin <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Superman? Not me, just Yamaha factory trained. Speed then accuracy..8 hrs a day, 5 days a week for one year. That was 28 years ago. Aural "concert" tuning...50 min. Machine, haven't learned to use one.......yet.   Bob   Moffatt &Sons Piano Atelier Calgary, Alberta - Canada Tel. 403 243-0385 <A HREF="mailto:moffattr@cadvision.com">moffattr@cadvision.com</A> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">----- Original </BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>