<html> <body> Hi, Alan, At 12:19 PM 2/26/2005, you wrote: <snip> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Bottom l= ine: I think the machine tuner and the aural tuner can produce equally solid results. But the machine person also needs a pretty good set of listening skills to go along with his or her little helper.</blockquote> I couldn't agree more. <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Now, abo= ut you Neanderthals still using a C fork ...  (Just kidding, just kidding)</blockquote> (scratch, scratch, yawn yawn...)...Whazzat, y'say?...Oh, yeah...it's still winter...no thinking allowed.. Cheers! Horace <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">  Alan R. Barnard Salem, MO <dl> <dd>-----Original Message----- <dd>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" eudora="autourl"> mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of antares <dd>Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:25 PM <dd>To: Pianotech <dd>Subject: Re: Aural tuning- 300 cents flat <dd>On 26-feb-05, at 20:34, Fenton Murray wrote: <dl> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>"And, if you tune aurally with nothing but a 440 fork to relate =<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>to, what do you do when you find yourself way below 440 and the pitch =<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>is shiftng as you tune?"<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>I take this question as rhetorical, but, with all due respect I believe it shows a lack of understanding of the skills of one who has tuned aurally for 30 years. To accomplish a pitch raise aurally there are perhaps 100's of split second decisions made on the fly, sort of like a computer, only in that most incredible computer of all, the mind.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd>  <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>"Hop aboard year 2005 and get yourself a Cybertuner with the =<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>great pitch raise feature.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Counting beats with a piano like this... is "Neanderthal tuning =<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>in the extreme".<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Hmm, I wish I wouldn't see this kind of talk on here. There is more than one way to achieve your goal, we need to respect them all, I certainly respect what you're doing and appreciate the opportunity for dialog.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Respectfully,<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Fenton Murray, RPT<?/smaller><?/fontfamily> <dd><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param 0000,0000,EEEE><?smaller><a= href="http://www.murrayspianotuning.com/" eudora="autourl"> www.MurraysPianoTuning.com</a> <?/smaller><?/color><?smaller> <?/smaller><?/fontfamily> </dl> <dd>On the other hand, what are we actually taking about? <dd>We are talking about a pitch raise on an older instrument. <dd>If you do a pitch raise on an older instrument with new strings, you can accomplish this in maybe 15 minutes. <dd>If it is an older instrument, you have to be very careful and make da choice to what pitch you dare to tune the piano. <dd>The speed of the pitch raise remains the same, the final pitch may be different. <dd>Pitch raise is pitch raise, and any professional should be able to do this certainly within 30 minutes. <dd>The second tuning may take another 30 minutes, and the final tuning may take you 45 minutes. <dd>So all in all, every professional tuner should be able to do a giant pitch raise within 2 hours, and with a convincing result. <dd>And I mean just aurally, ok? <dd>friendly greetings <dd>from <dd>André Oorebeek <dd><a href="http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/" eudora="autourl"> www.concertpianoservice.nl</a> <dd>"Where music is no harm can be" <dd>-- <dd>No virus found in this incoming message. <dd>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. <dd>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 02/25/2005 </dl> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 02/25/2005</blockquote></body> </html>