<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: Steinway M</title></head><body> <div>At 12:11 PM -0400 6/9/03, Tom Driscoll wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">List,</font><br> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1" >            I have a client seeking my opinion concerning purchase of a 5 year old Steinway M at a university sale @$39,000. I have not seen this particular piano but have reservations about the tonal production of the M. Those designers among us have commented on scaling flaws and of course the compression crowned soundboards, but my question is what specifically are the areas of design where the shortcomings exist.</font><br> </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1" >            I felt like I was raining on a parade with my comments about the M, and I'd like to be more specific. I've encouraged my client toward a models L or B but budget may not allow them to consider those models.</font></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1" >            Thanks for your input.</font></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1" >            Tom DriscollRPT</font></blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>At 1:45 PM -0700 6/9/03, Donald Mannino wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Tom,<br> <br> I would advise that you not comment to your client on the design of the piano, but stick to what your client wants - an evaluation of the instrument itself, the condition, and whether it seems to be priced properly.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">What on earth is wrong with a technician commenting on the design of any instrument? Last time I checked I didn't notice that any of the manufacturing fraternity were any closer to deity status than the rest of us.</font></div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>There are lots and lots of opinions expressed here and other places about what is good or bad in a piano design, but all of these are really meaningless when it comes to personal choice in a piano.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">That just depends. I have no doubt that certain pianos have superior design when compared to others (and the design superiority will not necessarily be linked to the price of the instrument). In many cases, an instrument with inferior design will give inferior performance, regardless of how pristine the particular example may or may not be. Take the Model M and the Yamaha G2, to take two examples of status quo 5 and a half foot grands. When the humidity and temperature swings, neither of these pianos will have 'a snow ball's chance in hell' of staying in tune at B27, because the tension is just too low as a consequence of the 'hockey stick' lower treble scale. B27 will go sharp if the humidity rises and vice versa.</font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF"><br></font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">I've had the experience of being recalled to a piano a few days after tuning it, only to find that the break had gone out of tune thanks to a change in the weather and a lousy scale design. On one occasion, when I tried to explain that the piano in question had an inferior scale design which was causing the tuning instability, I was accused of making excuses for my inability to achieve a stable tuning. I didn't appreciate taking the wrap for a major manufacturer's design incompetence.</font></div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>  I have played and rebuilt many Steinway Ms, and have had good and bad ones just like any other model.  I am not a fan of "compression crowning" of soundboards, but how many fantastic pianos have been made with this system in mind?</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">But the further question this begs, is how much better might these alleged great instruments have been, had they been bellied using an alternative RC process?</font></div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>The temptation is to feel the need to direct the client towards a piano that is your choice.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">Well I don't think this will ever change. We can't help making choices - I hope. But it would seem that some folks might prefer that we don't ever question anything.</font></div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>  If the client calls and asks for that advice, then you should give it of course.  When evaluating an instrument for someone, though, it will keep things simpler for you and your client if you stick to evaluating that instrument, and not editorializing too much.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">It might indeed keep things simpler, as you say, but it might also constitute a case of glossing over a few home truths which have come to light in recent times.</font></div> <div><br></div> <div>At 6:46 PM -0400 6/9/03, John Hartman wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Tom,<br> <br> It sounds like you think there is something wrong with the design of the M. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I have rebuilt at least 20 Ms and have found the basic design to be very solid and reliable. While any design can be improved the M is one of the best small grands available to musicians. Of course I have seen many disappointing Ms but it is failings in execution and craftsmanship that are to blame not design.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">What about the scale design John? I have no doubt that you have the skills necessary to make an M into something that it might not have been, but you will still be stuck with a scale which is ordinary. No small piano should cross at Bfl26/B27, but most do.</font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF"><br></font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">This endemic problem of not making waves is killing the potential that we have to move forward in our industry. I find it frustrating when I hear comments from talented people who seem to be resistant to the idea of progress unless it comes from one of the hallowed manufacturers.</font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF"><br></font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">I am looking forward to hearing the fruits of uncle Del's latest contract to design a small grand for Walter. I'll wager that the break on Del's grand won't be placed at the incredibly impractical Bfl26/B27.</font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF"><br></font></div> <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#0000FF">Ron O.</font></div> <x-sigsep><pre>-- </pre></x-sigsep> <div><font size="-2" color="#000000"><br> </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="+1" color="#0000FF"><b>OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY</b></font></div> <div><font color="#000000"><i>    </i></font><font color="#0000FF"><i> Grand Piano Manufacturers</i></font><font color="#000000"><br>      _______________________</font></div> <div><font size="-2" color="#000000"><br> </font><font color="#000000">Web http://overspianos.com.au<br> mailto:ron@overspianos.com.au<br>      _______________________</font></div> </body> </html>