<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11"> <meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 11"> <link rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01C5A346.F0D3AE90"> <link rel=Edit-Time-Data href="cid:editdata.mso"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple = style='tab-interval:.5in'> <div class=Section1> As to the first point, Susan, NO!! = (Thankfully!)  To quote a Ph.D. in the field (I’m more food/flavor = chemistry):<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Cyanoacrylate= glues contain the group H2C=CH-CN: Where the = represents a double bond = between two carbons and there is a triple bond between the carbon and nitrogen of = the CN. CN is the 'cyano' group, and a three-carbon = chain with a double bond next to another type of multiple bond (or some other = form of electron rich group such as a radical or anion) is an 'acrylic' group -- = the combination gives a relatively high reactivity to the compounds and = allows them to polymerize like a plastic. Many non-toxic compounds contain both = types of groups, and many medicines have cyano = groups. Along with this group, there are other chemicals and can be other chains = attached to that cyanoacrylate group in place of one or = more of the hydrogens. <o:p></o:p> There is NO, NONE, NADA cyanide released on curing = these glues and hardening. There are some obnoxious fumes released -- some of = them just parts that boil out from the heat of the curing reaction. BUT, = whenever an organic chemical that contains nitrogen is burned, some cyanogen/hydrogen cyanide is released. This happens with tobacco, meat, veggies, fireplace = wood, etc. This release is worst when there is not enough oxygen present in = the burning zone to ensure complete combustion -- so if there is a lot of = smoke formation, there is more likelyhood of = cyanide formation.<o:p></o:p> Sorry if that’s more chemistry than you wanted, but I think it makes the = point.  Watch out for smoking = rags, etc! <o:p></o:p> To the “kicker” issue, I assume that’s an = accelerant?  Anything with water (a VERY = WEAK lye solution would be better) is going to work.  Elmer’s may just be = getting in the way of the polymerization.  How is the smell irritating (acrid, ammonia, etc)?  That may give some indication = of what’s going on. <o:p></o:p> John Delmore<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kline Sent: Wednesday, August = 17, 2005 3:28 PM To: <st1:PersonName = w:st="on">Pianotech</st1:PersonName> Subject: RE: CA = Glue<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> At 01:54 PM 8/17/2005 -0500, you wrote: <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p> The CA glues themselves have very = low toxicity.  And although some companies (Sur-Lok, for one) market = their products as solvent free, most are 99% methyl or ethyl = cyanoacrylate (butyl and octyl cyanoacrylates are used for surgical closures, an = indication of their low toxicity!).  Of the two, I would look for one that is = ethyl cyanoacrylate, as a little safer than the methyl.  Maybe fewer fumes.  But the fumes, though not terribly toxic, are = irritants.  So keep up with the ventilation.  As for safety, anything that works = this good, ya gotta be careful with! John Delmore<o:p></o:p> This is very interesting, John. I've heard rumors that = while curing CA glue can emit small amounts of cyanide? Is this true? Also, can you tell us what is so very irritating about the kicker? One = smell and I decided not to use it. And is the bond stronger or weaker if the = glue is "kicked"? I "kick" by using it along with white glue (Elmer's), but the effect seems much less violent than the spray-on = kicker which is sold for the purpose. Thanks for letting us pick your brains ... Susan Kline <o:p></o:p> </div> </body> </html>