<html><body> <DIV>HI Ron,</DIV> <DIV>I worked on a practice tuning on Wednesday at a local thrift store.  I mentioned tha tbaby  grand. It was sooooo flat, that after I did my best to get the temerment in, the rest of the piano sounded like I had two piano in one case.  It was wild.  A customer of the thrift store came in and started to talk to me, and I demonstrated the importance that a piano needs to be tuned etc.  They too were amazed at the difference. I had c# 3 and c#4 octave in line, and the other c# sounded like entirely different notes not even related to them.  I went back yesterday to do some tuning on an vertical, and I played a few notes on the grand , and the pitch raise held some.  I 'm going back on MOnday to work on th egrand again.</DIV> <DIV>Marshall</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net> > > > > I am a novice tuner learning to tune aurally. I am confused as to how to > > do an effective aural pitch raise. > > It'll probably take you longer to learn to do an effective aural > pitch raise dependably than to learn to tune acceptably. > > > > How can you accurately judge whether a piano needs a pitch raise > > (without an electronic guage)? > > I don't think you can, accurately, with any method. So much depends > on the situation, and every tuner has a different threshold. Just > figuring out where the piano is in pitch is guesswork. If you live > in a part of the world that has seasons, you'll find often tuned > pianos that are very close in the A-4 area, five beats flat or sharp > in the low tenor, and the same in octave 6. The bass will be pretty > close, and the high treble could be anywhere. Most of your clientele > won't be too interested in paying for pitch corrections twice a > year, so you do the best you can in one pass. > > At A-4, each beat per second is four cents. I tune school systems > where the pianos are off 4+ beats (16+ cents) sharp or flat at A-4. > They get one pass. While this won't produce concert level tuning, > it's surprising how nice sounding a tuning you can produce like this > with practice, which is good, because that's all they will get under > these circumstances. > > In other venues, a 4 cent or smaller change will require a pitch > adjustment pass. > > Bottom line is, there isn't a rule. Your judgment is made on the > likelihood of your meeting the requirements of the tuning in this > instance, on this piano, in one pass. > > > > Once you determine a pitch raise is necessary, is there a particular > > sequence to use when pitch raising? I am aware of the general guideline > > of overshooting a string by half the amount that it is flat. Do you do > > this on every note, or is there a certain graduation as you go to the > > bass and the treble? > > I start with the overshoot at the fork, and set a decent, but not > overly fussy temperament. I then chase the overshoot beat rate by > octaves up to the treble break, and down to the low tenor. The > overshoot in the bass will be less, or none. Overshoot through > octave 6 will be more than in the center, tapering to none at the top. > > Again, everyone slays their pitch correction dragon in their own > fashion. You'll just have to keep paying attention and adjusting > your approach until you find a set of processes that work for you. > > Ron N > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>