<HTML>In a message dated 9/26/01 1:30:25 PM Central Daylight Time, tito@PhilBondi.com (Phil Bondi) writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I realize this is not re-inventing the wheel, but to the aural tuners out there, do you expand your temperament and why.?.? </BLOCKQUOTE> This is a very well reasoned approach you are using.  The area you are speaking of is sometimes thought of as the "killer octave"  (although there are as many definitions for that as there are for "perfect pitch").  The fact is that the range from C3-C5 is where all of the harmony occurs.  Below that, close harmony starts to sound *muddy* and above that, 3rds beat so rapidly as to be beyond the range of perception. This is the area of the piano which requires the utmost in precision.  Even an error of 1 cent is audible and does affect the quality of harmony.  The tolerance for an error on the PTG Exam in this area is 1 cent. When attempting to truly equalize a tuning across the whole piano, it is important not to favor the Rapidly Beating Intervals (RBI) over the Slowly Beating Intervals (SBI) or vice versa.  Your control of contiguous SBI's however, gives you RBI's that apparently check out with little or no need for correction. Piano tuning has historically been taught by thinking in terms of constructing a so-called "Temperament Octave" (usually C3-C4 or F3-F4 but sometimes other notes such as A3-A4) then simply to tune what were thought of as "pure" octaves.  Somewhere along the line, the notion of *stretching* the upper octaves began to be taught but with no clear consensus of how or how much would be appropriate. It was again, the greatest of all tuning researchers, Professor Owen Jorgensen RPT who noted that PTG had brought new insights to the tuning of the modern piano.  He described it as expanding the temperament across the entire piano.  Rick Baldassin RPT, Jim Coleman Sr. RPT and Dr. Al Sanderson RPT all have written about the concept of "expanded temperament".  Their concept is the full C3-C4 range I spoke of. A really well tuned piano requires a great deal of precision.  The old fashioned ways of setting a temperament with 4ths & 5ths, then simply tuning out the octaves will produce mediocre if not very poor results by today's standards. Be content and have faith that your insight and techniques as described in your post are the kind that help acheive the kind of superior results called for by today's high standards. Bill Bremmer RPT Madison, Wisconsin</HTML>