<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Terry,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something to watch out for when planning / estimating / pricing:  The last one I did, a small Wurlie console, had the plate screws squeezed into a tiny gap between the upper plate flange and the tuning pin field.  No room for nuts and washers, not even room for the head of a 3/8" carriage bolt until I filed off some from the sides of the heads.  45 minutes that I didn't have in the price.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree completely about the epoxy.  Even on the only slightly separated blocks, or maybe even moreso on these,  where nothing else is going to flow to the full depth of the crack.  I have also started drilling 1/4" holes down into the crack every 6" or so, to act as a reservoir for the epoxy and help it get in to the depths of the damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mike</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">Farrell</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 10/3/2003 5:17:27 AM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Pinblock Separation Questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks Ron. I seem to remember we went around on this one last time. This one is a good 1/4-inch gap, and the last tooner supposedly pulled it up to pitch, tooned it, and squirted a bead of silicone bathroom caulk into the top of the crack to prevent further spreading (or maybe he squirted the silicone in the crack before pulling up to pitch - I wonder which is the proper sequence?).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>In this case, I will lower pitch first, as with the gap closed, the piano may go well above A440 (although I must admit I would do that anyway just for comfort - but in this case I have reason to believe the piano may have been at A440 after significant pinblock movement had occurred). I will also use epoxy in the crack. Titebond requires a clean, well-mated surface and good clamping pressure for a good bond. Whereas the mating surface in a case like this will likely re-align, between the debris (silicone glue, drill shavings, whatever else crud) and the original glue between the pinblock back and back assembly, I will simply rest much more comfortably at night if I use epoxy. The couple times I have done this repair, it seemed impossible to get the crack completely closed - all the more reason to consider use of an adhesive designed for gap-filling. I do understand that the repair would likely be successful with the through bolts alone - but overkill is my middle name - and I think that, arguably, epoxy use in this case may not really be overkill. Also, this is a relatively new piano - I would feel more comfortable with an adhesive other than epoxy if the piano were a 1952 Winter spinet - this is a 15 year old otherwise very good condition Baldwin console - the piano has the potential for decades of good service.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>And yes epoxy use does take a bit more time and requires two appointments. So the cost is more that a one-appointment repair. I have little doubt a Titebond repair will work. But I think for some anyway, there is a different comfort factor. There will always be significant unknowns regarding the integrity of a repair such as this where the assembly is not being completely disassembled, resurfaced and re-bonded.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Or, I could take the approach a dealer that I am aware of takes on a several year old expensive vertical piano - no clamps, no through-bolts, no Tightbond in crack, no epoxy - none of that stuff - just rout out a little groove along the jagged crack and shim in a shallow piece of maple, plane down to original height, touch-up finish and waaaallllla - problem solved (oh, and stack heavy objects on lid of used "repaired" piano while it resides in the new piano sales showroom, with the new piano price tag hanging from it, so that nobody is tempted to open the lid)!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Anyway, just a few longwinded, mostly constructive, thoughts on the subject.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Ron Nossaman" <</FONT><A href="mailto:RNossaman@cox.net"><FONT face=Arial size=2>RNossaman@cox.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "Pianotech" <</FONT><A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><FONT face=Arial size=2>pianotech@ptg.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:17 PM</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: Pinblock Separation Questions</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> >Also, any non-bionic technician willing to share how many hours they have <BR>> >taken to do a repair like this - start to finish, not including pitch <BR>> >adjustments and tuning (just clamping, drilling, bonding, bolting and cleanup)?<BR>> ><BR>> >Thanks.<BR>> <BR>> I'm old and fat, so I assume I qualify as non-bionic. I take off the lid <BR>> and put a couple of monster clamps across the top of the back, drawing the <BR>> gap in a bit. If I can close the gap, the clamps will hold it while I take <BR>> out plate screws, drill through holes (3/8"), and install carriage bolts <BR>> from the back. I use washers that will fit around the square shank at the <BR>> head of the bolt to get a bigger footprint than the head provides. You can <BR>> sink a 3/8 carriage bolt pretty deep into a piece of poplar otherwise. <BR>> After the holes are drilled and I have bolts in place and have vacuumed up, <BR>> I loosen the clamps enough to pour Titebond into the crack, helping it as <BR>> necessary with a thin steel spatula purchased for just this sort of thing. <BR>> Glue in, I crank the nuts (lock washer underneath) tight and use the bolts <BR>> to pull the crack(s) together. Trim the bolts with a hacksaw, mop up the <BR>> glue, pack up the tools, take them to truck, bring back my tuning case, put <BR>> the lid back on, pitch adjust and tune the piano. I haven't lowered the <BR>> pitch to bolt the back, so the thing is often not far off, and I don't have <BR>> coils and such to mess with.<BR>> <BR>> Takes somewhere between an hour and an hour an a half for the repair, plus <BR>> whatever the tuning takes, and I'm done in one trip in usually around 2.5-3 <BR>> hours total.<BR>> <BR>> No failures yet, that I know of.<BR>> <BR>> Ron N<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> pianotech list info: </FONT><A href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives"><FONT face=Arial size=2>https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>> </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>