<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hi Terry,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I wasn't fromally instructed how to raise pitch, = but what I did on the old piano was simply get a4 in the right pitch, yes I used = f2 orcourse.  Then I proceded to tune it and get an idea where the = thing was or what neighborhood it ws in as one customer of the thrift store said = to me.  It kept falling in places, and I didn' t have time to finish = it. I'ts one I'm practicing on and I the thank  you letters I get are going = to make good references.  It has quite a few loose tuning pins, buzzing = strings, just in bad shape. Th ey want $550.00 for it. It's some brand = manufactured in New Jersey.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Marshall</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com href="mailto:mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com">Farrell</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 09, 2006 = 6:56 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Lovely birdcage - = what to do?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><EM>"..... the guy..... "tuned the piano to itself."  I asked her why did he leave it flat?  She siad = she didn't know."</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT face=Arial></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'm really not sure why that is so common, but = my best guess is that two prime factors are involved (maybe more?). </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I believe many of the "old timers" - piano = technicians who were trained many years ago - were commonly instructed to not = raise pitch. Why? I have no idea, but I have been told that was common to teach a = new technician many years ago.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>My guess is that also there are techs out = there who have had minimal training or improper training and simply don't know how to = raise the pitch of the piano. I think also there are some techs who either = have not been trained on how to replace a string or choose to not invest in the = tools and supplies to replace a string - so they are afraid to raise pitch = becuase of the potential for strings breaking.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I was thinking of what you said earlier = about leaving a piano flat.  I just returned from my eye doctor who own an = old upright.  I'm not certain of the brandd, but she claims that = it's from the 1800s. I won't dispute her of course because I haven't seen the = piano, but she told me that the guy, a seasons pro like most of you guys, = "tuned the piano to itself."  I asked her why did he leave it = flat?  She siad she didn't know.  She asked about strings etc.  She = said that it's flat because her obo when played with it shows that the piano = is off.  Are there cases to leave a piano flat, or did this guy = tune the piano to a different a fork?  I've heard that old pianos are = tuned to a lower A</FONT><FONT face=Arial>.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Marshall</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>ps. I never tune a4 tof3.  I like f2 = because I can hear the beats better.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff = 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Geoff Sykes" <thetuner@ivories52.com> <BR><BR>> The techs I refer to = shall remain anonymous for my protection. And they are <BR>> = definitely NOT "tooner's." Just techs with a different opinion and different = <BR>> experiences than you. And that's OK. I've learned from them and = now I've <BR>> learned from you. Whats wonderful about this is that now = I get to take <BR>> several different viewpoints and make an "educated" = opinion of what to do <BR>> next. Thanks to all. <BR>> <BR>> The = customer definitely does not want to sell her piano. I was just curious. = <BR>> She just wants to be able to play it again. I'm glad that I now = have lots of <BR>> encouraging information to share with her about how to = proceed with making <BR>> this wonderful piano whole again. <BR>> = <BR>> -- Geoff Sykes <BR>>! -- Assoc. Los Angeles <BR>> <BR>> = <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On = Behalf <BR>> Of Farrell <BR>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:48 = AM <BR>> To: Pianotech <BR>> Subject: Re: Lovely birdcage - = what to do? <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Who the heck are these "techs" (or = rather, "tooners") that suggest to leave <BR>> the pitch where it is. I = run across so many pianos that are a semi tone flat <BR>> <BR>> = and the owner is shocked when I suggest that we raise to standard pitch = <BR>> because all the other tooners said it could not be done. <BR>> = <BR>> Pitch raise the darn thing to A440 and be done with it. You might = want to <BR>> yank a few treble and bass strings up there first just to = be sure, but I <BR>> pitch raise 100 year old uprights to standard = pitch all the time. Haven't <BR>> had one explode on me yet. If this = were one of those scantily b! uilt <BR>> 150-year-old English = minimum-plate birdcages, I think there might be some <BR>> justification for = concern (I'd likely warn the customer that the piano might <BR>> = <BR>> fold up in half), but I'd still be willing to try it if the owner = wanted to <BR>> try to get it up to standard pitch. However, this is a = monster heavily built <BR>> <BR>> German piano from the 20th = Century. IMHO if they want it at A440 (and that <BR>> would be my = recommendation to the owner), put it there for them. <BR>> <BR>> And = everything looks original to me also. REAL CLEAN - you bet, but all <BR>> = original. Very pretty piano. <BR>> <BR>> What's it worth? Its value is the = case and the amazing fact that there <BR>> really is a piano within. = Someone will be willing to pay something for that. <BR>> <BR>> Hard = to say for sure what one could get for it - because the buyer will be = <BR>> that person that takes one look at it and falls in love with it! - = but I <BR>> would guess that the owner could get somewhere between = $1K and $2K - maybe <BR>> more if the right person were to see it. = <BR>> <BR>> Terry Farrell <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message = ----- <BR>> > You think this piano could be brought up to 440, = perhaps in stages, <BR>> > without <BR>> > any problems? I was so = afraid to do a pitch raise on this thing because of <BR>> > what = other local techs have advised that I never even thought that perhaps = <BR>> > the added tension would improve the pin tightness. Worth a = try.> <BR>> > -- Geoff Sykes <BR>> > -- Assoc. Los Angeles = <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ = <BR>> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives = <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ = <BR>> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives = </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>