<html><body> <DIV>HI John,</DIV> <DIV>I think Virgil Smith is also vision impaired I'm told.  I was taught this because it was takig me quite a bit of time to insert that stupid felt. :)  My instructor and I met on Mondays for nine weeks for a couple of hours, one day he gave me the felt and said mute the piano. It took me more than a half hour to try and get the loops right etc.  One day he said that he wanted to teach me a new method, and here we are, cracking unisons.  I have extra cloth here to make a neck tie. :)  It's a real pain puttin th e felt between strings expecially in the bss and treble sections.  Hammers go thunk thunk thunk, or the notes ring on too much to hear anything.  One rubber mute and a tuning lever, and I'm working. no poking strings with a screw driver, trying to get the felt between fat strings and once getting them in the note goes thunk thunk thunk.  I thought about revisiting felt stripping again, but icracking unisons is like being married.  Why would I want to be single again.  It's like fatherhood, why would I want to not be a daddy. Once I've tasted the ease of tuning with a rubber mute, eas as in less aggrevation , why wo uld I want to go back to bending over a piano getting a back ache trying to put that stupid felt in.:)  Sorry for the rant. ;)]</DIV> <DIV>Marshall</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Formsma" <john@formsmapiano.com> <META content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)" name=Generator> <STYLE> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </STYLE> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="State" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType> <STYLE> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <STYLE>  </STYLE> <DIV class=Section1> <DIV> It’s under action cloth.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> May I suggest that since you’re a beginning tuner, you might leave off “cracking the unisons” for a while until you’re certain of some other things like stability, great unisons, and good octaves? If you don’t have these, I wouldn’t focus on cracking unisons, although it does work well once you’ve established the primary skills. It’s like learning to crawl before walking. But, I’m not vision impaired, and it might indeed work well for you. Just a friendly suggestion.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> John Formsma<o:p></o:p> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of pianotune05@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:08 PM To: Pianotech Subject: RE: felt mutes -- was RE: Working while tuning<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Hi John,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> I didn' t see the action cloth in schaff.  I wonder if it's in a different section than the regular temperment felt.  I might check it out, although I like cracking the unisons a little better, I might revist cloth again.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Marshall</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Formsma" <john@formsmapiano.com> <o:p></o:p> <?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:City u2:st="on"><u1:place u2:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Marshall</st1:place></st1:City></u1:place></u1:City>,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Action cloth is what I use. It will last practically forever. When I ordered it about four years ago, I think it was the medium white cloth. You might want to order two different kinds to make sure you get the correct thickness.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> John<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of pianotune05@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 7:33 AM To: Pianotech Subject: RE: felt mutes -- was RE: Working while tuning<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Hi John,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> would extra thin temperment strip work in the trebble?  I've tried muting the trebble before, but I didn't have an extra thin temperment strip.  I ordered one from Schaff.  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <u1:City u2:st="on"><u1:place u2:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Marshall</st1:place></st1:City></u1:place></u1:City><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Formsma" <john@formsmapiano.com> <o:p></o:p> David,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Yeah, it was in an upright. Been a long time ago.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Have you tried using a strip of action cloth in the treble of verticals? (About 0.090 thick, I think, and cut down the middle.) Pulling the strip out bit by bit surely beats moving mutes around, especially when you get toward the end of the treble where you run out of room for the wire handles. You also don’t have to finagle around the dampers. I save some time that way, as it takes me 1 – 1 ½ minutes to strip the entire piano. I know I spend more than that moving mutes. But it’s whatever works best for you.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> John<o:p></o:p> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:06 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: RE: felt mutes -- was RE: Working while tuning<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> Your tuning too many uprights...;-]   Felt wedges don't fall out of grands...<o:p></o:p> I do use them in uprights...haven't had any fall out if I can get them between the unisons...but I do have to go to thin rubber mutes in the treble...<o:p></o:p> I gave up on temp strips years ago...SAT III, my ears and 2 mutes David Ilvedson, RPT <?xml:namespace prefix = u3 /><u3:place u4:st="on"><u3:City u4:st="on"><u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:City u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Pacifica</u3:City></u1:place></u1:City></st1:City>, <u3:State u4:st="on"><u1:State u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">California</u3:State></u3:place></st1:State></st1:place><o:p></o:p> <DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 2.25pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> Original message From: "John Formsma" <JOHN@FORMSMAPIANO.COM>To: Pianotech <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG>Received: 1/6/2006 7:10:48 PM Subject: RE: felt mutes -- was RE: Working while tuning<o:p></o:p> Thanks, Terry.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I’ve never used a felt wedge except once when I tried it in the bass. It kept falling out, so I didn’t use it again. I like to strip mute the bass…for speed. Actually, my MO for verticals is to strip the entire piano, but tune unisons as I go, pulling out the felt when moving to the next string set.  It’s quite a bit faster than moving mutes. Grands are sometimes done this way, but the action cloth I use for verticals is not quite thick enough for some grands, so most of the time I use the large rubber wedges (w/o the wire.)  I wouldn’t think the narrow rubber mutes would do that well in a grand, although you can make anything work if you want to. J<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> John Formsma<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Farrell Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 7:41 AM To: Pianotech Subject: Re: felt mutes -- was RE: Working while tuning<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Whereas I've never tried a large rubber wedge, I have tried the regular rubber mutes in the past that I use on uprights. On grands, I find that the felt mutes are easier to insert, are very stable (stay where you put them), and mute exceptionally well. You can also place them fairly loosely in place and still mute well - I always wondered how jamming those rubber mutes in between strings might be affecting the pitch of a string that was already tuned.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> They just seem to work better to me.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> And besides, they don't make that screeching noise that a rubber mute can sometimes make!<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Terry Farrell<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></u1:State></body></html>