<HTML style="FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: MS Sans Serif"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV> <DIV>Jumping back in ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 5th beats at 3:2 and this is the interval that must be "clean". It also has a beat at the 4:6 which is more prominent on some pianos than others. Tuning at the 4:6 will make the 5th too wide due to the increased inharmonicity of the higher partials.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's easy for "newbies" to be confused by the 4:6 beat and place the upper note too sharp (or lower note too flat). This is another good reason for not trying to use the 5th as a primary tuning interval, n'est pas?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Alan Barnard</DIV> <DIV>Salem, Missouri</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=josephspiano@comcast.net href="mailto:josephspiano@comcast.net">Joseph Alkana</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A></DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 08/11/2005 9:45:36 PM </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: newbie questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Considering the spread of a fifth, it would seem to me that there would be opportunity for higher partials to be all over the place with the inharmonicity differences in wire. I.e., a plain wire and wound wire. By my ears, the beats of the higher partials are no where near double sometimes, but I haven't really got into it yet. I still don't see how you use that beat speed to put the wire being tuned into your tuning pattern. More info, please.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Joseph Alkana RPT</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk href="mailto:alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk">alan forsyth</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:40 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: newbie questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>The beats are twice the speed so you can make a much more accurate judgment as to the correctness of your interval.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=josephspiano@comcast.net href="mailto:josephspiano@comcast.net">Joseph Alkana</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:25 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: newbie questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And just exactly what would you discern from hearing the second, or higher coincident partials? How would you make use of the information at that point?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just curious.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joseph Alkana RPT</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk href="mailto:alan@forsythalan.wanadoo.co.uk">alan forsyth</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:57 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> newbie questions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>From Alan Barnyard's post: "5ths have such a slow beat that they are hard for most to tune accurately, as a primary interval"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's much easier to use 5ths by listening to the second intersection of partials and not the first. However you will have to sensitize your hearing to discern that point.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>AF</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>