<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <blockquote> </blockquote> This is where I have to disagree with you my freind. There is no evidence to support the claim that using ETD's (without qualification of how they are used) in general contributes to a positive developement in a tuners skills.  My own experience with the US testing process would indicate to me that there is indeed good cause for concern. I find this kind of statement made often by ETD enthusiasts who are very good aural tuners, and the reasons they give are reasons I can most certainly accept, yet in most cases they do not seem to relate to the person who never has learned these skills to the same degree... nor the person who so heavily relies on ETD's that years go by since the last time they actually practiced their aural skills. This, I think, is a valid concern... and until it is shown conclusively to be false... I am forced to continue to position myself behind it. All this said.... I really rather think the only real significant difference between your view and my own, is how we go about stating them.  I notice by your closing statement, you too underline the need to be able to oversee the ETD.  The central point to my position. Cheers RicB <blockquote>And the beauty of it all, meaning : having tuned aurally AND having tuned Machinically, is thatt when the battery is empty, I happily continue tuning with da pinkies. And tuning with a good machine does not make us numb or dumb, it makes us sharp and keen. I do not and shall never rely on an ETD only. I have proved this to myself and to others. I done an aural tuning test over and over till I dropped. Capisce encora? ((; <>;)) </blockquote> <pre> </pre> </body> </html>