<html> Hi, Dean -- interspersed again ... <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>David wrote: It makes sense, but don't we have to turn the piano on it's back to do this As Susan described, you can apply a little glue at the base of the pin with the piano vertical and the capillary action will suck it right in.</blockquote> I'm glad your experience has been the same as mine. I assume that when you say "base" you mean the upper side of the tuning pin where it disappears into the pinblock or plate bushing. That's where I put the CA, anyway. <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Using a hypo oiler works really well for this. I buy them from Schaff by the dozen. Have a q-tip handy in case any runs down. You don't want it running down the strings onto the dampers. </blockquote> Interesting to have someone describe the same procedure with minor variations. For years now I've used the Loctite brand CA. They've just renamed it "Superglue" with "Precision" at the bottom of the label. The bottle holds .18 oz. (5 g.) It usually lasts me a couple of months, and I use it for other stuff as well as the loose pins. A bottle costs about $2.80 or so, which explains (for Thump) why I don't itemize it on the bill. <grin> The long thin spout, with the small needle in the cap, keeps me from having to resort to a hypo-oiler. Sometimes toward the end of a bottle's usable life span I need to reopen the spout with a needle in a pin vise. Once in awhile I manage to use all the glue before it gets stiff, but usually about 1/3 or 1/4 of it has to be tossed. Gee! That could lose me 93 cents every two or three months!!! What an expensive business to be in, piano work! <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I, too, have done this technique in a pinch. I prefer to sell the thorough job. Susan and Thump spoke of making no guarantees. I say, "Why not?" I find it very useful in selling the job. I give an eight year warranty. It helps me sell a $250 job that cost $7 in materials and 30 minutes of my time. As Susan says I can nurse just about any piano along for 8 years, and that was even before I had CA glue in my arsenal!! So far the worst warranty issue I had needed some more CA glue, but 95% of the time, no problems. If worse comes to worse, I am fully prepared to refund the money on a pro-rated basis. </blockquote> I'm sure you are, and no doubt you are sincere. However, a $250 job which takes 30 minutes? So, do you usually charge $486 an hour? (allowing for the $7 cost of materials) Do you consider this a good use of your customer's money? <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Speaking of problem child pins that need additional treatment, I pull the pin, squirt some glue in the hole and put the pin back in. No swabbing. This has always worked for me. I've also done this on uprights I am re-stringing. I just drop a couple of drops in each hole before I put the pin in. I try to hold the tip so the glue runs down the sides of the hole. The new pins feel great. Dean Dean May             cell 812.239.3359 PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 Terre Haute IN  47802</blockquote> It's true that my one attempt on the Zimmerman of pulling a pin and inserting the glue gave an experimental sample size of _1_, so I certainly can't say that the jumpiness I encountered would be universal. I don't feel I am "nursing pianos along", since after using CA a few times they don't seem to get worse. In fact, the tuning pins feel much better than before. I haven't noticed the treated ones degrading further over time. The process is new enough that we won't have long term prognoses for awhile, but so far it all looks very promising. I think that the bottom line on this thread, for me, is that I prefer not to sell major jobs which also cost me a lot of labor and fatigue, if I feel I can get similar or superior results from trivial efforts, repeated as needed. I haven't found that results long term are poor -- on the contrary, I can't remember having to use the glue more than two or three times on any given piano's "problem children". The well-behaved children just sit there dry, waiting for the slow passage of time to loosen them up. Some may want a CA drink in fifteen or twenty years, most probably won't. Well, unless the piano is left on a porch, or inside a small home in New Orleans, or something. There seems to be more needed piano work out there than I have working lifetime left, and some day I will start cutting back on piano work, allowing <shock> time and, especially, energy for doing other things, some even unrelated to pianos! So, if I can minimize the time, effort, and customer expense of doing something, I certainly shall, especially when I find no drawbacks from doing so. I guess pushing 60 changes one's ideas about the use of time.  Best, Susan </html>