<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial" bottomMargin=7 leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7><FONT id=rol= e_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hmmm....seems like this idea has been met with a bit of skepticism, and= by many far more learned than I....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ric, if you don't think you can feel the damper lift with your finger, play a key REALLY slowly, especially where the tricord wedges are.  You'll feel it.  And if you can't feel the damper weight tha= t way, see how the keys feel when you play with the damper pedal depressed.</D= IV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, manufacturers all have specifications for what should ha= ppen where and when.  But  why would they put spoons on the underlevers= if they weren't expecting techs to use them from time to time?  And bendin= g the spoons has no effect on the operation of the pedal, unless I really am missing something here.  I did adjust the trapwork-stop capstan down a bit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not saying this is the perfect way to change touchweight(real or theortetical).  I will say that I was pleased with the result, and so w= ere the clients.  I'm just relaying information from personal experience.&n= bsp; </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dave S.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 1/18/2006 11:19:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, remoody@midstatesd.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><= FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size= =2> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The damper timing I thought = was determined by the manufacturer.  When the key goes down it meets a co= uple of resistance points.  One, the end of the key contacting the damper = lift lever (but who can feel that?) , and two, the jack contacting the let off button. (which everybody can feel)  Since the contact between the key= and damper lift lever is  what, 1/8 inch leeway what difference does it really make?  The most important consideration is that dampers lift a= s a unit as the damper pedal is depressed so that â€śhalf dampeningâ= €ť can be utilized. </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I can imagine asking any of = the piano makers including Seiler who show up for the National Convention wher= e they prefer the key to hit the damper lever and why.    ---ric   <A title=http://www.pnotec.com/ href="http://www.pnotec.com/">www.pnotec.com</A> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium= none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid= ; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>william ballard<BR><B>= <SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1= 1:04 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Pianotech List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: Light= ening touch by changing damper timing redux</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Jan 18, 2006, at 11:13 PM, <A title=mailto:Piannaman@aol.com href="mailto:Piannaman@aol.com">Piannaman@aol.com</A> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt" type="cite"><S= PAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorati= ons-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Arial c= olor=black size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial= ">I've read opinions about this where some techs say that changing damper timing "doesn't really lighten the touch, it only gives that perception."  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=black= size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR><BR></SPA= N></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Remember of course that when we measure touch we= ights on a grand action, the action is usually on the bench or otherwise separat= ed from the damper assembly (say, by putting the sustain pedal on). In effect= you've made the action feel as those the sustain pedal is on, even when it= isn't.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Arial col= or=black size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">= <SPAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decoration= s-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">As a piano player, the difference was quite noticeable in terms of weight and= control. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=black size= =1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR><BR></SPAN>= </FONT></P></SPAN> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It's now alot easier to play staccato, but much = harder to play legato. The conventional damper timing regulation would favor neit= her of these, balancing in the middle between the two of them.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV><SPAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decoration= s-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><SPA= N style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decoration= s-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">Mr. Bill</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></= FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">"Can you = check out this middle C?. It "whangs' - (or twangs?)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">  &n= bsp; Thanks so much, Ginger"</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">  &n= bsp; ...........Service Request</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">+++++++++= ++++++++++++</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></= FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></= FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">List,</SPAN></= FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>=  </P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Some of you ma= y remember that a few months back I was asked to lighten the action in a Sei= ler 186 grand.  I went about it by raising the damper lift to occur just before letoff.  Instead of getting two bumps--one from damper lifting= underlever and the other from jack hitting button--you get a single, more elongated bump. The method I used at that time was raising the damper= wire blocks.  It worked quite well, but it required regulating all of= the dampers to lift evenly from the tray as well.  The whole thing took around 2 hours.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>=  </P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A couple of da= ys ago, I achieved the same result on an earlier model of Seiler (180) b= y bending the spoons upward slightly.  Worked like a charm, and took ab= out 1/4 the time.  </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>=  </P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I've read opin= ions about this where some techs say that changing damper timing "doe= sn't really lighten the touch, it only gives that perception."  As a piano= player, the difference was quite noticeable in terms of weight and control.  As a tech, I noticed a five gram difference when I measured= it.  </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>=  </P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The best two features of this operation?  1).  It works   2). = It's easily reversible.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>=  </P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2 FAMILY="S= ANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave Stahl<BR><BR>Dave Stahl Piano Service<BR>650-224-3560<U><BR><A title=http://www.dstahlpiano.net/ href="http://www.dstahlpiano.net/">http://dstahlpiano.net/</A></U></SPAN= ></FONT></P></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"= >Dave Stahl<BR><BR>Dave Stahl Piano Service<BR>650-224-3560<U><BR><A href="http://www.dstahlpiano.net/">http://dstahlpiano.net/</A></U></FONT><= /DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>